1 NO. 90-CI-6033 JEFFERSON CIRCUIT COURT DIVISION ONE (1) 2 3 JOYCE FENTRESS, ET AL. PLAINTIFFS 4 5 VS. DEPOSITION FOR PLAINTIFFS 6 7 SHEA COMMUNICATIONS, ET AL. DEFENDANTS 8 * * * * * * * * * * 9 10 DEPONENT: ROBERT TAYLOR 11 DATE: AUGUST 12, 1993 12 13 * * * * * * * * * * 14 15 16 REPORTER: KATHY NOLD 17 18 KENTUCKIANA REPORTERS SUITE 260 19 730 WEST MAIN STREET LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY 40202 20 (502) 589-2273 Page 1 1 * * * * * * * * * * 2 3 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF INDIANA 4 INDIANAPOLIS DIVISION 5 IN RE ELI LILLY AND COMPANY ) Prozac Products Liability ) MDL Docket No. 907 6 Litigation ) 7 * * * * * * * * * * 8 NO. 91-02496-A 9 JACKIE LYNN BIFFLE, ET AL ) IN THE DISTRICT ) COURT OF 10 V. ) DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS ) 11 ELI LILLY & COMPANY AND ) 14TH JUDICIAL DISTA PRODUCTS COMPANY ) DISTRICT 12 * * * * * * * * * * 13 NO. 92-14775-E 14 RICHARD HAROLD CROSSETT, JR., ) IN THE 15 CHAD H. CROSSETT, AMY MICHELLE ) DISTRICT CROSSETT AND KRISTEN ANN CROSSETT, ) COURT OF 16 INDIVIDUALLY AND AS SURVIVORS OF ) AND ON BEHALF OF THE ESTATE OF ) 17 JOCQUETTA ANN CROSSETT, DECEASED ) ) 18 V. ) DALLAS COUNTY, ) TEXAS 19 ELI LILLY & COMPANY, DISTA ) PRODUCTS COMPANY, TEXAS ) 20 PSYCHIATRIC COMPANY, INC. ) D/B/A/ HCA WILLOW PARK ) 101ST JUDICIAL 21 HOSPITAL, JAMES K. WITSCHY, M.D., ) DISTRICT AND DOUG BELLAMY, ED.D. ) Page 2 1 * * * * * * * * * * 2 NO. A-921,405-C 3 MARIA GUADALUPE REVES ) IN THE 4 INDIVIDUALLY AND AS NEXT ) DISTRICT COURT FRIEND OF GRANT JULIAN REVES ) OF 5 A MINOR CHILD, AND ON BEHALF ) OF THE ESTATE OF CHRISTIAN ) 6 MARIE REVES, DECEASED ) ) ORANGE COUNTY, 7 V. ) TEXAS ) 8 ELI LILLY & COMPANY, DISTA ) PRODUCTS COMPANY, RAVIKUMAR ) 9 KANNEGANTI, M.D., HOSPITAL ) CORPORATION OF AMERICA, A ) 10 TENNESSEE CORPORATION, HEALTH ) SERVICES ACQUISITION CORP., ) 11 A DELAWARE CORPORATION, ) HCA PSYCHIATRIC COMPANY, A ) 12 DELAWARE CORPORATION, TEXAS ) PSYCHIATRIC CO., INC.. A/K/A ) 13 AND/OR D/B/A HCA BEAUMONT ) NEUROLOGICAL HOSPITAL, AND HCA ) 14 HEALTH SERVICES OF TEXAS, INC. ) 128TH JUDICIAL A/K/A AND/OR BEAUMONT ) DISTRICT 15 NEUROLOGICAL HOSPITAL ) 16 * * * * * * * * * * Page 3 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 2 FOR THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS SAN ANTONIO DIVISION 3 ELIZABETH T. SANCHEZ, ) 4 INDIVIDUALLY AND AS THE ) SURVIVING SPOUSE, MARGARET R. ) 5 SANCHEZ, INDIVIDUALLY AND NEXT ) OF FRIEND OF DEBRA JEAN ) 6 SANCHEZ, VERONICA MARIE ) SANCHEZ, EDWARDO ESTEBAN ) 7 SANCHEZ, AND MICHAEL ANTHONY ) SANCHEZ, CHILDREN; AND ALL ON ) 8 BEHALF OF THE ESTATE OF ) EDWARDO SANCHEZ ) 9 ) V. ) CIVIL ACTION NO. 10 ) SA93CA367 ELI LILLY AND COMPANY AND ) 11 DISTA PRODUCTS COMPANY ) 12 * * * * * * * * * * 13 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS 14 HOUSTON DIVISION 15 MARIA SANCHEZ, INDIVIDUALLY ) AND AS NEXT FRIEND OF DEBORAH ) 16 SANCHEZ, VERONICA SANCHEZ, ) EDDIE SANCHEZ, AND MICHAEL ) 17 SANCHEZ, AND ON BEHALF OF THE ) ESTATE OF EDUARDO SANCHEZ ) 18 ) V. ) CIVIL ACTION NO. 19 ) H-93-1469 ELI LILLY AND COMPANY AND ) 20 DISTA PRODUCTS COMPANY, A ) DIVISION OF ELI LILLY AND ) 21 COMPANY ) Page 4 1 * * * * * * * * * * 2 STATE OF NEW YORK 3 SUPREME COURT COUNTY OF JEFFERSON 4 _____________________________________________ 5 STEPHANIE CAPONE, AS EXECUTOR OF THE ESTATE OF JOSEPH J. CAPONE, JR., AND 6 STEPHANIE CAPONE, INDIVIDUALL, NOTICE TO TAKE 7 PLAINTIFF, DEPOSITION UPON ORAL EXAMINATION 8 VS. INDEX NO. 93-251 9 ELI LILLY AND COMPANY, DISTA PRODUCTS 10 COMPANY, A DIVISION OF ELI LILLY AND COMPANY, FLOYD BAJJALY, M.D, 11 DEFENDANTS. 12 _____________________________________________ 13 * * * * * * * * * * 14 SUPREME COURT OF TEH STATE OF NEW YORK COUNTY OF ORANGE 15 --------------------------------------X BRUCE R. MALEN AS EXECUTOR OF THE : INDEX NO. 16 ESTATE OF BARBARA E. MALEN, AND OF : 4119/92 BRUCE R. MALEN, INDIVIDUALLY, : 17 : HON. PETER PLAINTIFF : PATSALOS, 18 : J.S.C. -against- : 19 : ELI LILLY & COMPANY, DISTA PRODUCTS : 20 COMPANY, A DIVISION OF ELI LILLY & : COMPANY, BARRY SINGER AND UNITED : 21 HOSPITAL, : : 22 DEFENDANTS. : --------------------------------------X 23 * * * * * * * * * * Page 5 1 ---------------------------------X 2 VALARIE J. FRIEDMAN AND DAVID : SUPERIOR COURT FRIEDMAN, HER HUSBAND, : OF NEW JERSEY 3 : LAW DIVISION: PLAINTIFF, : MIDDLESEX COUNTY 4 : DOCKET NO. : L-3191-91 5 VS. : : 6 ELI LILLY & COMPANY; DISTA : PRODUCTS INC, A DIVISION OF : 7 ELI LILLY & COMPANY; LISS : PHARMACY; MADISON PHARMACY AND : 8 JOHN DOES NOS. 1-25 (UNKNOWN : ENTITIES), : 9 : DEFENDANTS. : 10 ---------------------------------X 11 * * * * * * * * * * 12 SUPREME COURT OF THE STAET OF NEW YORK COUNTY OF SUFFOLK 13 -------------------------------------x 14 RHOMDA L. HALA and JOSEPH L. HALA, : 15 Plaintiffs, : Index No. 14869/90 16 - against - : 17 ELI LILLY & COMPANY and DISTA : PRODUCTS COMPANY, a DIVISION OF 18 ELI LILLY & COMPANY : 19 Defendants. : -------------------------------------x 20 21 * * * * * * * * * * Page 6 1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS 2 COUNTY DEPARTMENT, LAW DIVISION 3 PATRICIA BRACH, ) ) 4 Plaintiff ) ) 5 v. )No. 92 L 13369 ) 6 ELI LILLY AND COMPANY, a foreign ) corporation; ALAN N. MILLER, M.D., ) 7 WILLIAM BRUINSMA, Psy.D., and ) CONDELL MEMORIAL HOSPITAL, ) 8 ) Defendants. ) 9 * * * * * * * * * * 10 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS 11 COUNTY DEPARTMENT - LAW DIVISION 12 RENATO DI SILVESTRO, Individually ) and as Special Administrator of ) 13 the Estate of JOHN DI SILVESTRO, ) Deceased, ) 14 ) Plaintiff, ) 15 ) v. ) No. 91 L 7881 16 ) ROBERT L. NELSON, et al., ) 17 ) Defendants, ) 18 ) GEORGE MELNICK, M.D. and PETER ) 19 FINK, M.D. ) ) 20 Respondents in Discovery.) 21 * * * * * * * * * * Page 7 1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS 2 COUNTY DEPARTMENT, LAW DIVISION 3 JOAN M. GRYER, ) ) 4 Plaintiff, ) ) 5 v. ) No. 92 L 7387 ) 6 ELI LILLY AND COMPANY, et al., ) ) 7 Defendants. ) 8 * * * * * * * * * * 9 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS 10 COUNTY DEPARTMENT, LAW DIVISION 11 JENNIFER HAMMERLI, as Plenary ) Guardian of the Estate of RAY B. ) 12 HAMMERLI, a disabled person, ) ) 13 Plaintiff, ) ) 14 v. ) No. 92 L 2365 ) 15 ELI LILLY AND COMPANY, THE ) UPJOHN COMPANY, DICKIE KAY, M.D., ) 16 (former Respondent in Discovery), ) and RICHARD CZECHOWICZ (former ) 17 Respondent in Discovery), ) ) 18 Defendants. ) 19 * * * * * * * * * * Page 8 1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE SIXTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT 2 CHAMPAIGN COUNTY, ILLINOIS 3 LINDA GARDNER, Individually and ) as Special Administrator of ) 4 the Estate of SHANE GARDNER, ) deceased, ) 5 ) Plaintiff, ) 6 ) v. ) No. 91 L 1066 7 ) ELI LILLY AND COMPANY, a foreign ) 8 corporation, ) ) 9 Defendant. ) 10 * * * * * * * * * * 11 IN THE NINETEENTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT COURT 12 LAKE COUNTY, ILLINOIS 13 JAMES E. SHEPPARD, Special ) Administrator of the Estate of ) 14 KENNETH K. SHEPPARD, Deceased, ) ) 15 Plaintiff ) ) 16 v. ) No. 93 L 124 ) 17 GOOD SHEPHERD HOSPITAL, a ) corporation, DR. STEWART SEGAL, ) 18 DR. SANFORD SHERMAN, DR. BRUCE ) CARLSON, DR. R. BERGLUND, and ELI ) 19 LILLY & COMPANY, a corporation, ) ) 20 Defendants. ) 21 * * * * * * * * * * Page 9 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES 3 DR. MARIUS SAINES, etc., et al., ) Case No: 4 ) SC 008331 Plaintiffs, ) 5 ) vs. ) 6 ) ELI LILLY & COMPANY, a corporation; ) 7 DISTA PRODUCTS COMPANY, a division ) of Eli Lilly & Company; and DOBS 1- ) 8 100, inclusive, ) ) 9 Defendants. ) ____________________________________) 10 11 * * * * * * * * * * Page 10 1 THE DEPOSITION OF ROBERT TAYLOR, TAKEN AT 2 THE OFFICE OF BAKER & DANIELS, 300 NORTH MERIDIAN 3 STREET, SUITE 2700, INDIANAPOLIS, INDIANA 46204, 4 ON AUGUST 12, 1993; SAID DEPOSITION TAKEN 5 PURSUANT TO NOTICE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RULES 6 OF CIVIL PROCEDURE. 7 * * * * * * * * * * 8 A P P E A R A N C E S 9 10 NANCY ZETTLER COUNSEL FOR GROUP A PLAINTIFFS 11 LEONARD M. RING AND ASSOCIATES, P.C. 111 WEST WASHINGTON AVENUE, SUITE 1333 12 CHICAGO, ILLINOIS 60602 13 GREGORY GREEN COUNSEL FOR PLAINTIFFS 14 LEONARD L. FINZ, P.C. 222 BROADWAY, 27TH FLOOR 15 NEW YORK, NEW YORK 10038 16 LAWRENCE J. MYERS COUNSEL FOR ELI LILLY AND COMPANY 17 FREEMAN & HAWKINS 4000 ONE PEACHTREE CENTER 18 303 PEACHTREE STREET, N.E. ATLANTA, GEORGIA 30308-3243 19 MARGARET M. HUFF 20 ELI LILLY AND COMPANY LILLY CORPORATE CENTER 21 INDIANAPOLIS, INDIANA 46285 Page 11 1 DENISE BRODSKY COUNSEL FOR GOOD SHEPHERD HOSPITAL 2 415 WASHINGTON STREET, SUITE 214 WAUKEGAN, ILLINOIS 3 PAUL J. CLEMENTI 4 COUNSEL FOR DR. DICKIE KAY HINSHAW & CULBERTSON 5 222 NORTH LA SALLE STREET, SUITE 300 CHICAGO, ILLINOIS 60601-1081 6 KATHERINE L. LAWS 7 COUNSEL FOR DRS. WITSCHY AND KANNEGANTI BAILEY AND WILLIAMS 8 3500 NCNB PLAZA 901 MAIN STREET 9 DALLAS, TEXAS 75202-3714 Page 12 1 I N D E X 2 3 DEPOSITION OF ROBERT TAYLOR 4 5 DIRECT EXAMINATIONBY MR. GREEN 14 6 CROSS EXAMINATIONBY MS. ZETTLER 86 7 8 CERTIFICATE 119 9 10 ERRATA 120 11 12 EXHIBITS 13 14 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 1 60 15 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 2 95 16 PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 3 100 17 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 4 115 18 19 Page 13 1 COMES ROBERT TAYLOR, CALLED BY THE 2 PLAINTIFFS, AND AFTER FIRST BEING DULY SWORN, WAS 3 DEPOSED AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: 4 DIRECT EXAMINATION 5 BY MR. GREEN: 6 Q. Good morning, Mr. Taylor, my 7 name is Gregory Green, I represent the Group B 8 plaintiffs in the Fentress litigation in 9 Kentucky. Today I will be asking you some 10 questions. If there's any question which I ask 11 which is not clear to you, please let me know and 12 I will attempt to rephrase it. 13 A. I understand. 14 MS. LAWS: Can we put our agreements on 15 the record? 16 MR. GREEN: Sure. 17 MS. LAWS: We've been reserving 18 objections except as to form of question and 19 responsiveness of answers, and objections of one 20 counsel is good as to all, if that's still 21 agreeable. 22 MR. MYERS: Sure. 23 MS. ZETTLER: The same goes with our 24 objections to the cross-noticing of depositions. Page 14 1 MR. MYERS: Right, the cross-notice and 2 the MDL and state court cases. 3 Q. Mr. Taylor, could you please 4 state your full name and address? 5 A. My name is Robert E. Taylor, I 6 live at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. 7 Q. And the Zip Code there? 8 A. xxxxx. 9 Q. Are you presently employed by 10 Eli Lilly and Company? 11 A. Yes, I am. 12 Q. And what is your present job 13 title? 14 A. Systems analyst. 15 Q. How long have you been employed 16 by Eli Lilly and Company? 17 A. About three years. 18 Q. Did you work anywhere prior to 19 Eli Lilly and Company? 20 A. I came to Lilly right out of 21 college. 22 Q. When you first came to Eli 23 Lilly three and a half years ago, what was your 24 title at that point? Page 15 1 A. It was about three years ago, I 2 want to make sure of that. My title at that 3 point was the same, systems analyst. 4 Q. During the course of the three 5 years, have you received any promotions or 6 demotions? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Where did you graduate from 9 college? 10 A. Southern Illinois University. 11 Q. Is that undergraduate school? 12 A. Yes, it is. 13 Q. What year did you graduate? 14 A. 1990. 15 Q. And what degree did you get? 16 A. I got a Bachelor of Science in 17 computer science. 18 Q. Are you presently -- after you 19 received your Bachelor's, did you go on to any 20 further education? 21 A. No. 22 Q. During the course of your work 23 at Eli Lilly and Company, have you done any work 24 with the drug Prozac? Page 16 1 A. Yes, I have. 2 Q. And for what period of time or 3 times did you work with that drug? 4 A. I started working with it when 5 I came to the company. 6 Q. And you've worked with it ever 7 since? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Have you worked with any other 10 drugs during that time? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. If you can give me a rough 13 percentage of the amount of time you spent on 14 Prozac in the course of your work. 15 A. About eighty-five -- about 16 eighty-five percent of the time. 17 Q. Can you describe for me briefly 18 what a systems analyst does? 19 A. Primarily, we get requests from 20 the medical plans side of things and we generate 21 reports as well as design data entry systems for 22 that -- or build data entry systems for specific 23 clinical trials. 24 Q. Is there -- in the course of Page 17 1 the three and a half years, was there a person or 2 a group of people within medical plans who would 3 make requests to you? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And who were those people? 6 A. It would be physicians, 7 statisticians and CRA's, clinical research 8 administrators. 9 Q. Are you actually part of the 10 medical plans group? 11 A. No, I am not. 12 Q. Who were the actual people, who 13 were the physicians, what were their names, who 14 made requests of you over the three and a half 15 years, is there one or two or is there a group of 16 physicians? 17 A. No, it would be a group of 18 physicians. 19 Q. How many physicians? 20 A. I would -- I don't recall 21 specifically how many it would be over the course 22 of the time. 23 Q. Are you aware of someone by the 24 name of Daniel Masica? Page 18 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Is he in medical plans? 3 A. I don't know. 4 Q. Did he ever make a request of 5 you? 6 A. Not that I recall. 7 Q. Have you ever heard of somebody 8 by the name of Max Talbott? 9 A. Yes, I have. 10 Q. Is he in medical plans? 11 A. I'm not sure of how the 12 structure is, no, I don't know. 13 Q. Do you know what Dr. Masica's 14 position is presently? 15 A. No, I don't. 16 Q. Did you ever interact with him 17 professionally over the past three and a half 18 years? 19 A. I don't recall ever working 20 with him. 21 Q. The requests that are made to 22 you by medical plans, about, on an average, how 23 long does it take to fulfill that request, those 24 requests? Page 19 1 MR. MYERS: Well, before he answers, I 2 object to the form as overly broad, but if he can 3 give you a generalized answer, I think that would 4 be appropriate. 5 Q. When I say requests, I'm not 6 talking about generating -- or I'm not talking 7 about data entry systems -- 8 A. Okay. 9 Q. -- developing programs for data 10 entry, I'm talking about when medical plans is 11 seeking some information, that's a request, isn't 12 it? 13 A. Yes, it is. To answer your 14 question would be very difficult because of the 15 range based on the complexity of the request. 16 Q. So do some requests amount to a 17 project where you really have to do research? 18 A. I wouldn't say -- it amounts to 19 a project in the sense of the length of time it 20 takes. As far as research, I'm not sure what you 21 mean by that. 22 Q. Can you give me an idea of some 23 of the requests which medical plans made to you 24 regarding Prozac during your first year of Page 20 1 employment? 2 A. My first year of employment, I 3 worked specifically on the data entry side, so it 4 would be for data entry systems and clinical 5 trials. 6 Q. Okay. We'll get back to that 7 later. What about your second year of 8 employment, did you receive requests during that 9 year? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Can you give me an idea of what 12 types of requests you received? 13 A. Some of the same as the first 14 year. Also requests for some reporting, generic 15 reports. I can't specifically think of anything, 16 I can't specifically think of anything during 17 that time. 18 Q. You can't think of the subject 19 matter of the request? 20 A. It would be varied over the 21 spectrum of reporting that we do. 22 Q. What's the name of the 23 department or division that you are in? 24 A. It's clinical research Page 21 1 information systems. 2 Q. Are there other systems 3 analysts within that division who work with 4 Prozac? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And what are their names? 7 A. Charlie Haddad, David Murphy, 8 John Shephard, and those are the ones that I'm 9 working with. 10 Q. Are any of those people your 11 superior? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Who is your boss? 14 A. My boss is Maureen Mesalam. 15 Q. And what is her title? 16 A. She's a project leader. 17 Q. How about over the course of 18 the last year, your third year of employment, do 19 you recall the subject matter of any requests 20 made to you regarding Prozac from the medical 21 plans? 22 A. Yes, I recall different reports 23 for -- actually, no, let me think about this for 24 a second. Yes, we've had some reports for Page 22 1 different regulatory requests that are typically 2 done every year, and then -- I'm sorry. 3 Q. I don't want to cut you off, 4 I'm really looking for subject matter. 5 A. Again, it would be over the 6 whole spectrum of data that we collect. I'm not 7 exactly sure what you're asking, I guess, I'm 8 having trouble with the question. 9 Q. I want to know the nature of 10 the requests more specifically than you 11 described. 12 A. Okay. 13 Q. So I'm asking what was the 14 subject matter of some of the requests you 15 received in the past year? 16 A. Right. It would be efficacy 17 analysis, event reporting, demographics 18 reporting. 19 Q. Any others? 20 A. That's basically all I recall 21 at the present time. 22 Q. What is a CC check? 23 A. A CC check, I'm not sure. 24 Q. When you did the efficacy Page 23 1 analysis, can you describe what you actually did 2 when you did that analysis? 3 A. I can't specifically think of 4 an efficacy analysis that I would be talking 5 about, I'm just talking about the course of what 6 we do. 7 Q. Okay. So you may have received 8 an efficacy analysis in your second year of 9 employment because -- have you done several 10 efficacy analyses? 11 A. I personally haven't done -- I 12 don't know that I've done any efficacy analyses. 13 We don't do analyses in our area, we simply 14 generate reports based on requirements that we 15 get, and then hand those reports off to the 16 people who do the specific analyses. 17 Q. Who does the specific analyses? 18 A. The statisticians, CRA's, I 19 believe. 20 Q. How about the physicians? 21 A. I'm not exactly sure what their 22 role in all the analyses is. 23 Q. Your job encompasses working 24 with computers, doesn't it? Page 24 1 A. That's correct. 2 Q. And when the clinical research 3 investigators supply data to Eli Lilly and 4 Company, and I'm talking about the clinical 5 investigators for Prozac, that data is entered 6 into a computer, isn't it? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. Who enters that data into the 9 computer? 10 A. There's a clinical encoding 11 department that enters the data. 12 Q. Once that information is in the 13 computer, are you -- do you have anything to do 14 with the information in the computer? 15 A. Simply setting up data bases 16 that that information will be entered into, as 17 well as data bases that that information will be 18 reported out of. 19 Q. And is your -- does the job of 20 a system analyst really have anything to do with 21 organizing the data bases so that certain 22 information can be extracted for use by the 23 statisticians? 24 A. The organization of the data Page 25 1 base is done by a data base administrator. 2 Q. Does your job entail anything 3 to do with providing access to the data base, 4 access for the statisticians, the physicians, the 5 CRA's? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And I'm not clear on what you 8 do, so I'm going to ask you some questions about 9 that. 10 A. Okay. 11 Q. Do you get a request from the 12 medical plans and you put that into a computer 13 language, question, and feed that into the 14 computer and get a report from the computer which 15 you then give back to medical plans? 16 A. That's correct, that's part of 17 what we do. 18 Q. That's the reporting part of 19 what you do? 20 A. Right, correct. 21 Q. And, so, you're not responsible 22 for what goes into the data base? 23 A. No, uh-uh. 24 Q. And in a sense, you're not Page 26 1 responsible for what comes out of the data base? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. And what comes out of the data 4 base is dependent on what the request from 5 medical plans is? 6 A. Right. 7 Q. The data entry systems, is that 8 a department, a division, or what is that? 9 A. The data entry systems are 10 built within our department. 11 Q. I'm sorry, I meant to say the 12 clinical encoding department. 13 A. It's a department. I'm not 14 real familiar with the department other than just 15 the name of it. 16 Q. So do you know who is the head 17 of that department? 18 A. I don't know, no, I don't know 19 at the time. 20 Q. Are the people -- are there 21 people within that department who worked or work 22 specifically with entering Prozac information 23 from the clinical investigations? 24 A. I don't know how they divide Page 27 1 the work. 2 Q. As a system analyst, do you 3 have any interaction with this department? 4 A. Yes, at one time I did, uh-huh. 5 Q. When you had interaction with 6 that department, did it have anything to do with 7 Prozac? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Could you describe what 10 happened? 11 A. We would design -- or a design 12 for a screen that we would build, we would take 13 it to them to ask them if it would fit their 14 needs for data entry, simply just the layout of 15 the screen. 16 Q. Now, was that a program that 17 was developed by the system analyst? 18 A. Right, the screen. 19 Q. So you had a screen, but it was 20 a program as well, wasn't it? 21 A. It's a program that causes the 22 screen to display, right. 23 Q. What does the screen display? 24 A. It displays pretty much an Page 28 1 exact copy of the clinical report form itself. 2 Q. Okay. Are there any prompts 3 for the encoders? In other words, does the 4 program ask them questions which they answer and 5 which would help to fill out the screen? 6 A. No, it's just -- they just 7 enter what's on the page, what's on the clinical 8 report form page. 9 Q. So the encoders simply type 10 onto the screen exactly what's on the clinical 11 report form? 12 A. Exactly. 13 Q. They move the cursor to the 14 area on the screen and then just type what's on 15 the clinical report form? 16 A. Right. 17 Q. Does the program do anything 18 beyond showing a screen of a clinical report 19 form? 20 A. Well, it would then move the 21 data -- put the data in the data base that they 22 enter. 23 Q. So the computer program 24 categorizes the data and places it in the data Page 29 1 base? 2 A. I'm not sure what you mean by 3 categorizes. 4 Q. I mean, for instance, it take 5 certain subject matters on the clinical report 6 form and place it in the same categorization as 7 that subject matter from the many other clinical 8 report forms that have been entered. 9 A. Each -- that's -- essentially 10 that's what it does, that's a real simplistic way 11 of putting that. But it does organize the data 12 with like data, that's correct. 13 Q. Do the encoders have any 14 special training? 15 A. I don't know. 16 Q. Do you know what's done with 17 the clinical report forms prior to them being 18 given to the clinical encoding department? 19 A. I don't know the exact 20 procedure that they follow. 21 Q. Have you ever observed anybody 22 in the clinical encoding department enter a 23 clinical report form into the computer? 24 A. I believe I have, yes, one Page 30 1 time. 2 Q. Were you watching that process 3 for a specific purpose? 4 A. Right, it was to see if they 5 were showing me how a cursor might have been 6 moving through the area, just simply as a matter 7 of trying to improve a program that we might have 8 to make the data entry easier, right. 9 Q. Do you recall any requests from 10 medical plans which covered the subject matter of 11 side affects of Prozac? 12 A. Are you asking for specific 13 examples? 14 Q. I'm just asking if you recall 15 it. 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. When was that? 18 A. The ones that I would 19 specifically recall are like annual reports. 20 Q. What are annual reports? 21 A. They're reports to the FDA on 22 an annual basis that -- I'm not sure all of their -- 23 I don't know exactly what all goes into an annual 24 report. Page 31 1 Q. Well, do you know -- can you 2 tell me what exactly you did as far as side 3 affects in the annual report? 4 A. I didn't work on them 5 personally. 6 Q. What did you observe being done 7 within your department? 8 A. Okay. What we do is just run 9 programs that will report -- that report adverse 10 events, and then we just give those to whoever is 11 writing the annual report. 12 Q. Okay. I'm not asking about 13 adverse events, I'm asking about side affects. 14 Do you recall that specifically? 15 A. No, I don't. 16 Q. How about adverse reactions? 17 A. I'm not sure of the 18 distinction. 19 Q. Do you know when you do these 20 annual reports are they annual reports of events 21 just for that year or are they an annual report 22 of events, all events, to date? 23 A. Both. 24 Q. And these annual reports are Page 32 1 sent to the FDA? 2 A. That's correct. As far as -- 3 not exactly what we do. What we do is just given 4 to whoever happens to be writing the annual 5 report, usually a CRA. 6 Q. When medical plans makes a 7 request, do you have to change the language of 8 their request in order to obtain information from 9 the data base? 10 A. Change the language of their 11 request? 12 Q. I mean do you have to put it in 13 some kind of computer language or do you have to 14 simplify it in English so the computer 15 understands and knows what to look for, or can 16 you just type in a request as the medical plans 17 presents it to you? 18 A. We have to generate a program 19 that will accomplish what they're requesting, 20 yes, and they give us requirements for it. 21 Q. Do your programs recognize 22 certain English words? 23 A. No, they don't. 24 Q. Say you were doing a report on Page 33 1 adverse events -- 2 A. Okay. 3 Q. -- and medical plans, for 4 instance, wants to know how many rashes occurred 5 this year in people taking Prozac that you know 6 of. 7 A. Right. 8 Q. How would you go about writing 9 a program for that? 10 A. Okay. We can, I mean you can 11 program a hard code, something for it to look for 12 a specific word, right. 13 Q. So the program would say look 14 for rash? 15 A. Right. 16 Q. And then it would count all the 17 CRF's that had that word on it? 18 A. It would count all the 19 occurrences in the data base that we happen to be 20 looking at at that time. 21 Q. Wouldn't all the occurrences be 22 listed on the CRF's or are there other data bases 23 that are not CRF's? 24 A. No, they're all CRF's, I just Page 34 1 made the distinction of it doesn't look at a CRF, 2 it looks at a data base that was entered from a 3 CRF -- data that was entered from a CRF. 4 Q. So it doesn't designate which 5 CRF the word rash came from? 6 A. What doesn't designate? 7 Q. The program. 8 A. It doesn't designate, I'm not 9 sure -- 10 Q. Okay. In this particular 11 hypothetical, the program would pick up the word 12 rash; is that right? 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q. And would count the number of 15 incidents that a rash developed. 16 A. That's correct, uh-huh. 17 Q. Once you do that, is there any 18 way to trace which CRF's were counted? 19 A. We get -- right. 20 Q. Which CRF's had incidents? 21 A. Yes, we can tell which 22 patients. 23 Q. And how is that done? 24 A. Well, it's simply a matter of Page 35 1 how we store the data in our data bases, it's 2 just the way that the data is associated with a 3 particular patient. 4 Q. When you get the request from 5 medical plans, do you have to write a new program 6 from scratch or are you able to build and modify 7 existing programs? 8 A. It's both. 9 Q. When you modify existing 10 programs, are you modifying a program that is 11 used more widely than others? 12 A. If we -- used more widely than 13 other programs? 14 Q. Yes. What I'm asking is is 15 there a base program that's used often that you 16 just have to fine tune for a specific request? 17 A. In many cases, yes, that's the 18 case. 19 Q. What is that program? 20 A. Well, there are many of those. 21 Q. Which one is used most 22 frequently? 23 A. Probably a lab program that -- 24 it's a generic program. Page 36 1 Q. You say a generic? 2 A. Meaning that we can use it to 3 look at a lot of different things in the data 4 base. 5 Q. Is that a program that was 6 developed by Eli Lilly? 7 A. Yes, it was. 8 Q. Is it copyrighted? 9 A. Yes -- I am not exactly sure 10 how all the copyright laws work, but my 11 understanding is yes. 12 Q. Does anyone other than Eli 13 Lilly use this program? 14 A. No, not that I know of. 15 Q. Are there other programs which 16 are used in such a manner? 17 A. Right. Almost all the 18 programs, all the programs that we would have. 19 Q. What I mean is is there another 20 base program other than the lab program you've 21 described? 22 A. Yes, there are -- I could -- 23 there are probably -- we're talking probably 24 about twenty-five, fifty to I'm not even sure how Page 37 1 many, quite a few of them. 2 Q. Does the lab program which 3 you've described to me, does that have a name? 4 A. It's Summary of Laboratory 5 Values or something like that, yes. 6 Q. You said the name of your 7 superior was -- I can't read my writing, Casador? 8 A. No, it's Mesalam. 9 MR. MYERS: Pretty close. 10 Q. Does Ms. Mesalam work solely 11 with Prozac or are her responsibilities wider 12 than that? 13 A. Wider. 14 Q. How much of her time would you 15 estimate does she spend on Prozac? 16 A. Almost none, about five 17 percent, something like that. 18 Q. Was that the case when you 19 first began working at Lilly? 20 A. No, she wasn't there when I 21 first began working with Lilly. 22 Q. Who was your superior when you 23 first started at Lilly? 24 A. Lisa DeVault. Page 38 1 Q. Where is Ms. DeVault now, if 2 you know? 3 A. She is at Lilly in a different 4 position, I'm not sure what that position is. 5 Q. Does she have anything to do 6 with system analysts? 7 A. Not in our department, no. 8 Q. Are there other departments of 9 system analysts? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. How are the departments 12 divided? 13 A. Pretty much -- I'm not exactly 14 sure how that works. We're specifically in the 15 group medical systems, I'm not sure what the 16 others are, their names. 17 Q. How many people are in your 18 group? 19 A. What group are you asking 20 about? 21 Q. The group headed by your boss? 22 A. Okay, there's seven of us, six 23 or seven of us. 24 Q. And the remaining people in the Page 39 1 group, which you've not named, don't work on 2 Prozac? 3 A. That's correct, they don't. 4 Q. When you first came to Eli 5 Lilly about three years ago, were you part of any 6 particular project that involved Prozac at that 7 time? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. What project was that? 10 A. Data entry systems for Prozac 11 at that time, for Fluoxetine, in general. 12 Q. Okay. And what did that 13 entail? 14 A. Building data entry systems for 15 new protocols. 16 Q. Well, how did they accomplish 17 that task prior to you being there, if you know? 18 A. There was someone else who 19 filled that role. 20 Q. Did you change the way data was 21 entered? 22 A. No, the format, no. 23 Q. So what exactly was your 24 project? Page 40 1 A. Well, we would put together -- 2 I mean just as someone puts together a clinical 3 report form, we take programs that are written 4 and combine those together to build a data entry 5 system. 6 Q. What I'm trying to figure out 7 is was that done in 1987 in a different manner? 8 A. I'm not -- I don't know exactly 9 how they would have done it in '87. 10 Q. This project that you were 11 working on when you first came on board, did it 12 change any existing procedure? 13 A. No. 14 Q. So I'm just not clear if it was 15 a project and -- were you starting something new? 16 A. In a sense of -- we didn't -- 17 we weren't really starting any new programs or 18 anything like that, but we were starting a new 19 protocol that we were putting together a data 20 entry system for. 21 Q. So each protocol has its own 22 data entry system? 23 A. In a -- it's a little more 24 complex than that. There are overall programs Page 41 1 that are written above, and then you build a data 2 entry system down here that these programs use 3 these programs. 4 Q. Do you recall what protocol you 5 were working on? 6 A. I don't remember -- I worked on 7 four or five of them in the first year, and I 8 don't remember what those were. 9 Q. Did you ever work on the 10 protocol that was conducted by a Dr. Klein in New 11 York? 12 A. I don't know, I'm not -- we 13 don't have any contact with investigators, so I 14 don't know who would have been the investigators 15 for a specific protocol. 16 Q. You do see their names, though, 17 on documents, don't you? 18 A. We typically don't. I'm not 19 sure what documents you're referring to. 20 Q. Any documents that might cross 21 your desk. 22 A. I don't recall seeing -- I mean 23 we may see documents that have their names in it, 24 but I don't recall picking up a name. Page 42 1 Q. The project that you were 2 working on, developing a data entry system for a 3 certain protocol -- 4 A. That's right. 5 Q. -- how was what you were doing 6 with that protocol different from what had been 7 done with protocols and data entry systems prior 8 to what you did? 9 A. The only way it would differ is 10 the order in which you put the screens together 11 or if there was another scale or another bit of 12 information that they collected in that protocol 13 that hadn't been collected before. 14 Q. Did you ever work with a Dr. 15 Charles Beasley? 16 A. Yes, I worked with him. 17 Q. And do you know what his 18 present position is? 19 A. No, I don't know. 20 Q. Can you describe for me the 21 nature of your interaction on a professional 22 basis with Dr. Beasley? 23 A. I really can't remember 24 specific instances. I remember working with him, Page 43 1 but I don't remember what we worked on. 2 Q. Did you ever help him prepare 3 for a meeting with the FDA? 4 A. No, I never did that. 5 Q. Did you ever help him prepare a 6 manuscript which would then be submitted to a 7 medical journal? 8 A. I don't recall ever doing that, 9 no. 10 Q. As far as your work with 11 Prozac, was there a particular statistician that 12 you worked with on a regular basis? 13 A. No, there are a few of them 14 that we work with. 15 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with 16 the name David Wheadon? 17 A. Yes, I am familiar with that 18 name. 19 Q. And who is Mr. Wheadon? 20 A. He was a physician at Lilly. 21 Q. Did you ever work with him? 22 A. No. 23 Q. How about a Dr. Street? 24 A. I recognize the name. Page 44 1 Q. How about Allan Weiss, do you 2 recognize that name? 3 A. Yes, I recognize that name. 4 Q. Who is that? 5 A. He was a systems analyst. 6 Q. Did he work on Prozac? 7 A. Yes, he did. 8 Q. Was he your superior, your 9 equal? 10 A. He was an equal. 11 Q. Do you recall what the last 12 request you received from medical plans prior to 13 this deposition, do you recall what that request 14 was? 15 MR. MYERS: With respect to Fluoxetine? 16 MR. GREEN: Yes. 17 A. No, I don't recall what that 18 request was, the different drugs. 19 Q. Do you know how long ago you 20 received that request? 21 A. No, I don't. 22 Q. Now, this data entry system 23 that you were working on when you first came to 24 Eli Lilly, did you work on that for about a year? Page 45 1 A. It was -- I think it was about 2 a year, year and a half, something like that, I 3 don't remember exactly. 4 Q. And you were working on 5 different protocols at that time? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. Do you know how many subjects 8 those protocols covered? 9 A. Subjects meaning? 10 Q. People who were part of the 11 investigation, patients. 12 A. No, I don't. 13 Q. Are you aware of any ongoing 14 studies regarding Prozac? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Do you know -- is that a 17 protocol? 18 A. Yes, it would be -- are you 19 specifically -- let me back up and say are you 20 specifically -- are you asking about -- I'm 21 trying to make a distinction of what you mean by 22 Prozac. 23 Q. I mean Fluoxetine and Lilly's 24 product. Page 46 1 A. Okay. The reason why I asked 2 is because there are different indications. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. And I was wanting to make sure 5 I was answering the question on the indication 6 that you were asking about. 7 Q. I'm not asking about an 8 indication. 9 A. When you say Prozac, it sort of 10 is an indication. 11 Q. It's an indication for 12 depression? 13 A. Right, or -- right, that's what 14 it's approved for as far as I know. 15 Q. Have you heard anything that 16 it's going to be approved for other indications? 17 A. No. I know that we have 18 submissions, but I don't know. 19 MR. GREEN: Can we go back to my 20 question? 21 (THE COURT REPORTER READ BACK THE 22 REQUESTED TESTIMONY.) 23 Q. The ongoing study, is that a 24 protocol? Page 47 1 A. Any -- well, yes. When I say 2 on study, I mean protocol. 3 Q. How many ongoing protocols are 4 there right now? 5 A. I can think of three right now 6 that I know of. 7 Q. Can you describe those to me? 8 A. A couple of those are for 9 obesity, is their indication. And the -- there's 10 one of the others that I'm thinking of, I 11 believe, was -- actually, I don't know, I can't 12 think of what they would be for. 13 Q. The first obesity protocol, do 14 you know who is the clinical investigator? 15 MR. MYERS: If you know, don't tell 16 him, that's confidential. 17 Q. Do you know where that study is 18 taking place? 19 A. No, I don't. 20 Q. The second obesity study, do 21 you know where that is taking place? 22 A. No, I don't. 23 Q. Are you aware of any protocols 24 regarding Prozac which were completed in the year Page 48 1 January, 1992 up until the present date? 2 MR. MYERS: Before he answers, let me 3 object to the form. What do you mean by 4 completed? 5 MR. GREEN: I mean where the clinical 6 investigator has finished his portion of the 7 protocol and the material has been sent to Lilly. 8 A. From what time period? 9 Q. January, '92 to the present. 10 A. Yes, we have, I think there are 11 studies that have finished. 12 Q. Do you know how many were 13 finished in that time? 14 A. No, I don't. 15 Q. Do you know were there any 16 depression studies done in that time? 17 A. Yes, there were. 18 Q. Did you assist in any of those 19 protocols? 20 A. Assist in what way? 21 Q. Did you work on any of those 22 protocols, the depression studies, which were 23 completed? 24 A. Okay, I don't work on Page 49 1 protocols, I work on data entry systems that 2 would support a protocol or a reporting system 3 that would support a protocol. 4 Q. Did you create any data entry 5 systems for any of those protocols which were 6 completed from January, 1992 to present which 7 involved the study of Prozac and depression? 8 A. I believe I did, I wouldn't be 9 able to tell you which one. 10 Q. Do you know how many such 11 studies there were, Prozac and depression? 12 A. In the time frame that you're 13 talking about? 14 Q. Yes. 15 A. No, I don't. 16 Q. What about from the point in 17 time when you were hired by Eli Lilly until 18 January of '92? 19 A. Okay. 20 Q. Were any protocols completed 21 which studied Prozac and depression? 22 A. I really don't recall because I 23 wasn't working in that area of the group at that 24 time. Page 50 1 Q. Have you ever heard of a 2 protocol which specifically studied Prozac and 3 the development of suicidal ideation? 4 A. No, I don't. 5 Q. Do you know if any protocol has 6 ever been done studying that question? 7 A. I don't know. 8 Q. If a statistician wanted to 9 know the number of, for example, rashes that 10 occurred within the data base, would the 11 statistician come to a systems analyst to obtain 12 that information? 13 MR. MYERS: Before he answers, let me 14 object to the form. What do you mean by the data 15 base? 16 MR. GREEN: The data base which is made 17 up of the clinical report forms. 18 A. Okay. First of all, there 19 isn't really one data base, there's a series of 20 data bases. So are you specifically asking about 21 one of those or -- 22 Q. Well, let's talk about the 23 series of data bases, could you describe that? 24 A. Okay. Well, we have kind of an Page 51 1 overview of that, and let me add that this is 2 kind of simplistic form of it. But essentially 3 there's a data base where the data is collected, 4 and at that point it's collected on a certain 5 platform, we then move it to another platform. 6 My understanding is that it enables us to analyze 7 it better on that platform. And it's moved from 8 one data base there to another data base, and 9 into its final form. 10 Q. So the series of data bases, 11 there are three or two? 12 A. Well, no, there are actually 13 more than three or two, depending on what 14 particular protocol you're talking about. 15 Q. Well, suppose we were talking 16 about a depression protocol? 17 A. Okay. 18 Q. Would they all be somewhat 19 similar? 20 A. Yes, somewhat similar. 21 Q. How many data bases would they 22 have in the series? 23 A. About probably three or four. 24 Q. Okay. Can you describe the Page 52 1 different data bases in the series? 2 A. Okay, what information exactly 3 are you looking for? 4 Q. You say the data is collected 5 on one platform -- 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. -- and you move to another 8 platform. 9 A. That's correct. 10 Q. What happens that causes the 11 data base to be moved from one platform to 12 another platform? 13 A. Okay. It's moved -- it's 14 collected at the present time on an AS four 15 hundred. From an AS four hundred, it's moved to 16 an IBM main frame, and my understanding for that 17 is simply because of the statistical analysis 18 packages that are available, and the computing 19 power of an IBM main frame because of quantity of 20 the data that we're talking about. It's moved to 21 that IBM main frame in the same kind of a 22 snapshot of what is collected on the AS four 23 hundred. It's then moved into a data base that 24 calculates totals, for instance, and things like Page 53 1 that. 2 Q. Is that the final data base? 3 A. Yes. Again, I want to back up 4 and say the data base is kind of a real 5 simplification that I'm not real comfortable with 6 because they're even more than -- when you're 7 talking about organization of data, even within 8 what you're referring to, I assume, as the data 9 base, there are divisions within that that have 10 to do with the categories of data and things like 11 that. 12 Q. The data base that you use to 13 respond to a request from medical plans, is that 14 data base dependent on the nature of the request? 15 A. Is that data base -- 16 Q. The data base that you use in 17 order to respond to a request from medical plans, 18 is the data base that you use selected based on 19 the nature of the request from medical plans? 20 A. Are you talking about the -- 21 well, I'm not sure exactly which data base -- 22 when you say the data base, I'm not sure what 23 you're asking about. 24 Q. I'm asking you -- for instance, Page 54 1 you just described three data bases. 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. All right. When you get a 4 request from medical plans, how do you know which 5 data base to use? 6 A. Well, the AS four hundred is 7 never used. The -- for reporting purposes, it 8 would be on the IBM main frame. 9 Q. By the way, the data base that 10 calculates totals, does that have a name like IBM 11 or AS -- 12 A. Right, it would be the SAS MVS -- 13 the standard SAS MVS data base. And again, it's 14 a simplification to say that it's a data base. 15 As I've described before, it's even segmented 16 into categories of data and stuff. 17 Q. Within? 18 A. Within that group. 19 Q. But the information that's in 20 the IBM main frame and the information that's in 21 the SAS MVS is identical, isn't it? 22 A. Say that again? 23 Q. The information in both the 24 data bases is identical, isn't it? Page 55 1 A. Which two data bases? 2 Q. The IBM main frame and the SAS 3 MVS? 4 A. Okay. It's identical -- it 5 isn't an exact copy of one another, if that's 6 what you're asking. Are you -- 7 Q. Yes, that's what I'm asking. 8 A. No, it's not an exact copy. 9 Q. Well, when you move the 10 information from platform to platform, is the 11 information changed in any way? 12 A. No, not when I move from -- the 13 platform that I'm describing is AS four hundred 14 to MVS. 15 Q. And isn't it a different 16 platform to the SAS MVS? 17 A. No, that's the same platform. 18 Q. The information that's in the 19 AS four hundred is identical to what's in the IBM 20 main frame, isn't it? 21 A. That's correct. 22 Q. Isn't it just changed so that 23 certain programs can use the information? 24 A. Yes, it's changed for that Page 56 1 reason. There are other reasons as well. 2 Q. Why is the information taken in 3 on an AS four hundred? 4 A. For the -- again -- well, let's 5 see. The reasons that I know of have to do with 6 the ability to write data entry systems on that 7 platform. 8 Q. So each of these platforms are 9 selected for a particular function; is that 10 correct? 11 A. I can't say that that would be 12 the only reason, I say that is a reason. 13 Q. Are there other reasons? 14 A. Not that I know of. 15 Q. Now, the IBM main frame and SAS 16 MVS are the same platforms; right? 17 A. The IBM main frame? 18 Q. Right. 19 A. We call that like an image, a 20 SAS image platform. 21 Q. SAS Image. 22 A. Right. SAS is the same 23 platform. 24 Q. Are there any other platforms Page 57 1 that we haven't discussed that would be used in 2 depression studies? 3 A. There was an old one that we 4 don't use anymore that was called Entrex, 5 E-N-T-R-E-X, I believe. It was actually the name 6 of a machine, I believe. 7 Q. Is there a reason you don't use 8 that anymore? 9 A. It's just outdated. 10 Q. Was that ever used with the 11 Prozac studies? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Did the information that was in 14 Entrex, the data that was in Entrex, have to be 15 moved to the IBM main frame? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Who was responsible for that? 18 A. I don't know, it was before I 19 was at Lilly. 20 Q. Do you know when that was done? 21 A. No, I don't know exactly when 22 it was done. 23 Q. So the information gets moved 24 around a lot; right? Page 58 1 A. A lot, I guess, is a relative 2 term, I don't know what you mean. 3 MR. GREEN: Can we take a break? 4 (A SHORT RECESS WAS TAKEN.) 5 Q. Mr. Taylor, were you hired by 6 Eli Lilly in the year 1990? 7 A. Yes, I was. 8 Q. Was that before or after July 9 of 1990? 10 A. It was before. 11 Q. Do you know exactly what month? 12 A. It was in May. 13 Q. From May until the end of July, 14 1990, were you designing computer systems for 15 data entry for protocols? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. During that time, did you work 18 with Dr. Thompson? 19 A. Uh -- you know -- 20 MR. MYERS: There's a couple of them 21 we've been talking about. 22 Q. Dr. Leigh Thompson? 23 A. I don't know of Dr. Leigh 24 Thompson. Page 59 1 Q. L-E-I-G-H? 2 A. Oh, okay. 3 Q. Leigh Thompson. 4 A. I don't recall working him in 5 that time period. 6 Q. Do you recall if Dr. Thompson 7 ever congratulated you or told you that you did a 8 good job on a certain project in and around July 9 of 1990? 10 A. Uh-huh. I believe there was a 11 project that my group worked on that I didn't 12 personally work on that that happened, yes. 13 Q. Do you know what project that 14 was? 15 A. No, I don't recall which 16 project that was. 17 (PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 1 WAS 18 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AND 19 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.) 20 Q. Okay. Mr. Taylor, have you had 21 a chance to review Plaintiff's Exhibit 1? 22 A. Yes, I have. 23 Q. Do you know what Dr. Thompson 24 is congratulating people for? Page 60 1 A. Well, as I said before, I 2 didn't work on this specifically. I don't know 3 exactly what it would be, it looks like the 4 message wasn't sent directly to our department to 5 begin with, so it looks like it wasn't -- I mean 6 it looks like here that it was something that we 7 did that helped the clinical plans area. And 8 then -- I mean other than what he describes, I 9 wouldn't be able to elaborate. 10 Q. Okay. So the message was not 11 meant -- it's not sent to you directly; is that 12 what you're saying? 13 A. That's correct, right, that's 14 correct. 15 Q. But it was sent to you, wasn't 16 it? 17 A. It was forwarded to us, yes. 18 Q. It was forwarded to you. 19 A. Uh-huh. 20 Q. Do you know who forwarded the 21 message to you? 22 A. It looks like Bev Fry forwarded 23 it to me. 24 Q. Who was Bev Fry? Page 61 1 A. She was an analyst at the time 2 on Fluoxetine. 3 Q. Is she still there? 4 A. She's not an analyst for 5 Fluoxetine. 6 Q. When did she stop as an analyst 7 for Fluoxetine? 8 A. I don't recall the exact time 9 period. 10 Q. Now Bev Fry did not just 11 forward it to your department, she forwarded it 12 to you, didn't she? 13 A. It looks like to me all the 14 people who were working on Fluoxetine at that 15 time. 16 Q. Why would Ms. Fry forward this 17 message to you? 18 MR. MYERS: Before he answers, I object 19 to the form, it calls upon him to speculate as to 20 why she would forward it. 21 Q. Did she forward messages to you 22 regularly? 23 A. I don't recall, I mean she 24 could have, but I don't recall. Page 62 1 Q. Have you ever heard the term 2 host data base? 3 A. Uh-huh. 4 MR. MYERS: You need to say yes. 5 A. I'm sorry, yes. 6 Q. What does that mean? 7 A. To me, it means the standard 8 SAS MVS data base. 9 Q. That's the data base that we 10 were discussing before; correct? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. Is there any reason that it's 13 called the host data base? 14 A. I believe that was an IBM, I 15 don't know. 16 Q. Have you ever heard of the DEN 17 data base? 18 A. I have heard of it. 19 Q. Have you ever worked with that 20 data base? 21 A. No, I haven't. 22 Q. Have you ever heard of COSTART? 23 A. I have heard of that. 24 Q. Have you ever worked with Page 63 1 COSTART? 2 A. Other than -- other than our 3 programs hitting off of it, no, I have not. 4 Q. Did the programs use COSTART or 5 have they in the past used COSTART? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. What is COSTART? 8 A. It's an --I believe it's an 9 adverse event dictionary. 10 Q. Are there other adverse event 11 dictionaries? 12 A. I believe there's a World 13 Health Organization dictionary or something like 14 that, I don't work with those directly. 15 Q. Well, when or if Eli Lilly 16 decided to change from COSTART to the World 17 Health Organization dictionary -- 18 A. Uh-huh. 19 Q. -- wouldn't that require a 20 change in your computer programs? 21 A. It would require -- not 22 necessarily, because it depends on how the 23 computer programs refer to the dictionary. It 24 would -- Page 64 1 MR. MYERS: Go ahead. 2 A. It would require a change in 3 where the programs would point to for that 4 specific information. 5 Q. So it would require at least a 6 change of part of the program? 7 A. It wouldn't be a change of the 8 program, it would be a change of some parameters 9 that that program might use. 10 Q. Who would be responsible for 11 changing those parameters? 12 MR. MYERS: Assuming there was some 13 dictionary change? 14 Q. Assuming there was some 15 dictionary change. 16 A. I don't know who would be 17 responsible. 18 Q. Would your department be 19 responsible? 20 A. Oh, for changing the programs, 21 they would -- okay, yes, it would happen 22 somewhere within our department, the parameters 23 would be changed, yes, at the direction of plans. 24 Q. Do you know if in fact there Page 65 1 was a change from COSTART to the WHO dictionary 2 in relation to Prozac protocols? 3 A. I believe there was. I'm not 4 sure about the timing on that. 5 Q. Did you ever hear of the ELECT 6 dictionary? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. What is that? 9 A. I guess these -- that's a -- 10 I'm trying to remember what the letters -- I 11 believe it's an event dictionary. 12 Q. Did your computer programs ever 13 use the ELECT in the way that COSTART or the WHO 14 dictionaries were used? 15 A. They're different types of 16 dictionaries, okay, so we refer to them in the 17 same sorts of ways that we refer to -- in the 18 same way that -- the parameters, we use 19 parameters to refer to those dictionaries. 20 Q. Okay. Are you aware of whether 21 or not the event dictionary ELECT was ever used 22 by Eli Lilly and Company? 23 A. Yes, it was. 24 Q. In relation to Prozac? Page 66 1 A. Yes, it was. 2 Q. Now you said that ELECT is an 3 event dictionary and COSTART is a different type 4 of dictionary? 5 A. Well, I'm actually -- I don't 6 work with these directly, and the programs that 7 refer to those have already been written for a 8 long time. And actually I can't recall -- I'm 9 getting a little confused about the two 10 dictionaries themselves, I'm not sure -- there 11 are two types of dictionaries we use, an event 12 term dictionary and drug dictionary, and I get 13 those mixed up. 14 Q. Have you ever used the term to 15 clean a data base? 16 A. Have I ever used that term. 17 It's -- how do you mean have I ever used the 18 term? 19 Q. Are you familiar with the term? 20 A. Yes, I am familiar with the 21 term. 22 Q. What does it mean? 23 A. It means -- from my point of 24 view, it just means that it's something that the Page 67 1 plans area does to get rid of -- people might 2 enter a blood pressure of eight hundred over one 3 forty or something like that, and it's making 4 sure that the data makes sense. 5 Q. Is that a program that cleans 6 the data base? 7 A. We -- no. 8 Q. In other words, are extreme 9 conditions flagged somehow? 10 A. Right, there might be -- yes, 11 there would be programs that do that, but the 12 programs themselves don't change anything. 13 Q. But there might be programs 14 that flag extreme reports? 15 A. Extreme? 16 Q. In other words, the example you 17 gave with blood pressure. 18 A. Uh-huh. 19 Q. That would be flagged by a 20 program because it's so out of whack. 21 A. That's correct. 22 Q. What is the name of the 23 programs that do that? 24 A. There are literally hundreds of Page 68 1 those kinds of programs. 2 Q. And are those programs just 3 given a wide range of variables, and anything 4 outside of that variable is flagged? 5 A. That's correct. 6 Q. Regarding that type of program, 7 and the function that it performs, in the 8 performance of that function is that cleaning the 9 data base? 10 A. In the performance? 11 Q. Of flagging the extreme 12 conditions. 13 A. No, I wouldn't call that 14 cleaning the data base. 15 Q. Is cleaning the data base the 16 actual removal of the extreme reports? 17 A. That would be my understanding 18 of it, yes. 19 Q. Who makes that decision to 20 clean a data base? 21 A. Who makes the decision to clean 22 it? 23 Q. Yes. 24 A. I'm not sure what you're Page 69 1 asking. 2 Q. Well, the data base that's been 3 collected -- 4 A. Right. 5 Q. -- for Prozac and depression 6 protocols. 7 A. Uh-huh. 8 Q. Has that data base ever been 9 cleaned? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Okay. How often is it cleaned? 12 A. It's a -- when a study is 13 ongoing, when a protocol is ongoing, it happens 14 as the data is being received in-house. 15 Q. Is the data cleaned before it's 16 entered into the computer? 17 A. No. 18 Q. So when the data base is 19 cleaned, what department does that? 20 A. It's the plans, the plans area, 21 and I think there are other people involved, but 22 I'm not sure who those people would be. 23 Q. Do they give you a request 24 along those lines? Page 70 1 A. No. 2 Q. So the medical plans area does 3 the cleaning? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. Do you know who within the 6 medical plans area does the cleaning? 7 A. I think -- I don't know of 8 anyone personally. 9 Q. So the medical plans division 10 has the same access to the data base that you 11 have? 12 A. Only on the AS four hundred, 13 they don't have access to anything on the SAS 14 data bases. 15 Q. Do any other departments have 16 access to the SAS data bases? 17 A. The statisticians have access 18 to that data bank. 19 Q. Is it possible to change 20 information in the SAS data base? 21 A. It's -- do you mean is it -- 22 it's technically possible, but we can -- we are 23 granted authorities to certain data bases, and 24 nonauthorities to others. We don't -- like I Page 71 1 can't go in and change production data. 2 Q. You mean data on the AS four 3 hundred? 4 A. No, I mean -- well, on the AS 5 four hundred and -- as an analyst, I can't 6 specifically go in and change data anywhere. 7 Q. Who can? 8 A. I believe the CRA's are the 9 ones. 10 Q. The CRA's? 11 A. Yes, the clinical research 12 administrators. 13 Q. So they have some authority to 14 get into the data base? 15 A. That's correct. 16 Q. I'm sorry, did you say they can 17 get into the SAS data base? 18 A. No, they can't, just the AS 19 four hundred. 20 Q. That's the only data base they 21 can get into? 22 A. That's correct. 23 Q. How often is the AS four 24 hundred moved, the data in the AS four hundred Page 72 1 moved from that platform to the SAS platform? 2 A. It used to be quarterly, but 3 now it's kind of a business needs. 4 Q. I'm sorry? 5 A. It's a business need, whenever 6 we need to report off something or a study closes 7 or something like that. It's a periodic basis, 8 not a set time frame anymore. 9 Q. So the CRA's can only change 10 data in the AS four hundred? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. Can anybody change data in the 13 SAS data base? 14 A. Again, it's technically 15 possible, but we don't have authorities to do 16 that. No one can go in -- there's not even a 17 front-end system that's written up, they can't 18 even get into it, it requires a program or 19 something to run off it. 20 Q. Nobody in the company can get 21 into it? 22 A. I can't say, I mean I wouldn't 23 be able to say that for sure. I don't know of 24 anybody that's able to get into it. Page 73 1 Q. Is there ever a time when it's 2 required or a situation when it's required that 3 somebody can get into the SAS data base? 4 A. Someone can get into it just to -- 5 the only way anything can be gotten into in SAS, 6 I'm trying to remember this, is via a program 7 that would have to be submitted under a specific 8 person who would have -- under tight controls of 9 how we submit programs to the MVS. 10 Q. When you say a specific person, 11 do you have someone in mind? 12 A. No, I don't, I don't know of 13 anyone. I'm not exactly sure how all this works, 14 how all the procedures and the process of exactly 15 how it's controlled, because that's controlled 16 kind of outside of our department, we just use 17 the applications that are built, already there. 18 We have a security department that handles all 19 that stuff. 20 Q. How much does it cost to move 21 the information from the AS four hundred to the 22 SAS? 23 MR. MYERS: Before he answers, let me 24 object to the form. What do you mean by the Page 74 1 information, at what point in time and how much? 2 MR. GREEN: The data base, that's what 3 I mean by the information. 4 Q. How much does it cost? 5 A. I don't know. I don't deal 6 with that kind of -- with the information of, you 7 know, the CPU time and all that stuff. 8 Q. How long does the process take? 9 A. It really depends, it depends 10 on how much data is being moved. 11 Q. You mean there are times when 12 only a portion of the AS four hundred is moved? 13 A. Well, yes, because studies that 14 are residing on the AS four hundred that have 15 been moved in the past and are closed and already 16 reported on and everything like that, won't move 17 again, it's already there. 18 Q. So the data is moved on a 19 protocol by protocol basis? 20 A. Right. 21 Q. So the only place that it's 22 really collected in total is the IBM main frame? 23 MR. MYERS: I object to the form, what 24 do you mean by really collected in total? Page 75 1 Q. I mean the only place that has 2 a collection of -- withdraw that. The only data 3 base that has all the protocols which have been 4 completed is the data base within the IBM main 5 frame or the SAS? 6 A. That statement is true because 7 the Entrex system, all of the stuff that existed 8 on the Entrex system does not exist on the AS 9 four hundred. So anything that was collected on 10 the Entrex system isn't on the AS four hundred, 11 and, so, it never got moved to the AS four 12 hundred, it was just moved to the SAS imaging. 13 Q. Is everything that was 14 collected on the AS four hundred still in the AS 15 four hundred? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And everything that was 18 collected on Entrex, is that still in Entrex? 19 A. No, the Entrex system doesn't 20 exist anymore. 21 Q. So if we wanted to review 22 information on the Entrex system, is that 23 possible to do? 24 A. It exists -- all of that Page 76 1 information collected on Entrex, or at least -- 2 the information that was collected on Entrex 3 exists on SAS image data set. 4 Q. And the information in the SAS 5 image data set cannot be changed; right? 6 A. Cannot be changed by -- I'm not 7 sure what you're asking about. 8 Q. What's the date that Entrex was 9 ceased to be used? 10 A. I don't know that. 11 Q. Do you know the year? 12 A. No, I don't. 13 Q. Was it 1989? 14 A. I think -- I remember it being 15 somewhere around the late '80s, but I wasn't here 16 then so I don't know the exact. 17 Q. Well, the hard copy clinical 18 report -- well, let me ask you this: The Entrex 19 system, did that have a screen with a clinical 20 report form? 21 A. That's my understanding. I 22 never saw it. 23 Q. The clinical report forms that 24 were entered onto the Entrex system, is it Page 77 1 possible to call them up on any computer program? 2 Like if I wanted to look at an individual CRF 3 that was entered on the Entrex system, is it 4 possible to review that on any existing program? 5 A. It's possible to review the 6 data. I don't know -- are you asking a 7 particular format or -- 8 Q. No, I'm not asking a particular 9 format, I'm just asking the exact data as, you 10 know, not necessarily the form, but the language 11 that was used on the clinical report form, is it 12 possible to call that back today? 13 A. I don't know exactly what form 14 it takes on the SAS image. 15 Q. But it is possible to gain 16 access to that information? 17 A. That's correct. 18 Q. For instance, if a clinical 19 report form was filled out for a particular 20 subject in 1987, it came to Eli Lilly and they 21 entered it on Entrex -- 22 A. Okay. 23 Q. -- that information is now on 24 Entrex. Now they switch over to the AS four Page 78 1 hundred and I want to call that information up 2 today, the information that was entered on 3 Entrex, is that possible? 4 A. Yes, for the most part. When 5 you ask -- when you're asking every particular -- 6 yes, as far as I know. 7 Q. Well, are any statistical 8 analyses ever done on the data base in the AS 9 four hundred? 10 A. Not that I know of. 11 Q. When information is moved from 12 the AS four hundred to the SAS image, how is that 13 information different, if at all, than the 14 information that was moved from the Entrex to the 15 SAS image? 16 A. How is it -- Could you repeat 17 the question again? 18 Q. My question is: Is the 19 information -- does it have different 20 characteristics if it came from the AS four 21 hundred or if it came from the Entrex? 22 A. The different characteristics 23 would be in just the form in which something was 24 collected. Yes, it could have a different form. Page 79 1 Q. How is that information 2 combined so that a statistical analysis can be 3 done on all the clinical report forms from Entrex 4 and the AS four hundred? 5 A. That's what the standard SAS 6 data base, standard SAS Fluoxetine data base is. 7 Q. It's -- is that a data base or 8 a program that combines the information? 9 A. There are a series of programs, 10 mini programs, that run over the data base in the 11 SAS image that will change it to a particular 12 format. For instance, if the length of a field 13 or, you know, if you say -- if at one time you 14 collect a -- I'm trying to think of an example. 15 Well, a simple example would be one time you 16 collect temperature in Fahrenheit and one time if 17 in Celsius. It would convert that data to all 18 Celsius or all Fahrenheit in the MVS system, as 19 well as -- that's a very simple example, as well 20 as any fields that have been collected in 21 lengths, different lengths. When a program runs 22 over a data base, it has to be the same length, 23 so it would convert those to that length format. 24 Q. If we use your example, if a Page 80 1 computer is changing Fahrenheit to Celsius -- 2 A. Uh-huh. 3 Q. -- and that's an analogy for 4 changing the AS four hundred in the Entrex to the 5 SAS image -- 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. Well, for instance, in your 8 analogy when Fahrenheit is changed to Celsius, 9 the temperature is no longer exactly the same, 10 right, because you can't make an exact switch. 11 If you did that, the Celsius temperature would be 12 thirty point three three nine six six; right? 13 A. Well -- 14 Q. Does that happen when you're 15 working with this information system? 16 A. I can't remember the formula, 17 but yes, I suspect it could happen, yes. 18 Q. So it's inevitable that the 19 data base is changed when the information is 20 moved? 21 MR. MYERS: I object to the form, you 22 mischaracterized his testimony, he hasn't said 23 it's inevitable that there's a change. 24 Q. That's my question: Is it Page 81 1 inevitable that there is a change? 2 A. No, I wouldn't say it's 3 inevitable. 4 Q. Is it probable? 5 A. It's possible. I want to make 6 sure that you understand that we're talking about -- 7 I mean the example that you've just given it is 8 something that we would approach someone who has 9 statistical knowledge to know whether or not that 10 would be -- that would be a significant thing, 11 and also a medical knowledge so that before we 12 would make -- write a program to round anything 13 or anything like that, we would get the specific 14 requirements for that. 15 Q. You would approach somebody 16 with medical knowledge? 17 A. That's correct. 18 Q. Because that could necessarily 19 be a medical decision? 20 A. That's correct, we wouldn't 21 make the decision. 22 Q. Does a system analyst make any 23 medical decisions? 24 A. I wouldn't, I don't know about Page 82 1 others. It's our practice not to, certainly the 2 people I work with. 3 Q. Would it be possible -- let me 4 ask this: The SAS image data base is stored 5 within a computer, isn't it? 6 A. Say that data base again? 7 Q. The SAS image? 8 A. Right. 9 Q. That's stored within a 10 computer? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. What kind of computer is that? 13 A. It's a main frame, IBM main 14 frame. 15 Q. Is it possible to copy that 16 information onto a series of discs or tapes or 17 whatever? 18 A. Well, it's certainly possible. 19 Again, when I described the SAS, the standard MVS 20 data base a while ago when I talked about how 21 there are a series of data bases inside that, 22 when we talked about that as being a data base, 23 that's a very simplistic statement. It's really 24 a series of collections of different files and Page 83 1 things in that data base, so different data sets. 2 Q. Is the data base set up so that 3 if I had a question about Prozac and depression, 4 I could write out that question and you would put 5 it into the computer and we would get a report 6 based on that question? 7 MR. MYERS: Before he answers, I object 8 to the form. You're back to the data base, and 9 the testimony has been there are a lot of data 10 bases, so which one are you referring to? 11 MR. GREEN: The SAS image. 12 A. The SAS image, okay. We don't 13 typically write programs over to that because 14 that's an intermediate step, as I've described. 15 You can't just write -- I mean it's programming, 16 so you have to write in specific programming 17 language, you can't write out an English question 18 and be able to go in and just get that 19 information, there have to be specific programs 20 written over that data base. 21 Q. Is there an area where you work 22 generally within Eli Lilly? 23 A. Specific place where I sit? 24 Q. Your office. Page 84 1 A. Uh-huh. 2 Q. Does that office have a 3 computer terminal in it? 4 A. Yes, it does. 5 Q. Does that computer terminal 6 have access to the SAS image data base? 7 A. I can view it, uh-huh. 8 Q. You can view it. 9 A. That's right. 10 Q. Can you run a -- can you manage 11 a medical plans request through that terminal? 12 A. Yes, I can. 13 Q. Since your time with Eli Lilly 14 began, who is the system analyst with the most 15 authority who has worked on Prozac? 16 MR. MYERS: Before he answers, let me 17 object to the form and the use of the term 18 authority because I don't know how you're using 19 it, he used it in a technical way before. So I 20 don't know really what you mean. 21 Q. I mean as far as rank within 22 the company. 23 A. As far as systems analysts, I 24 wouldn't say that there's anyone that's above Page 85 1 anyone else. 2 Q. Is there anyone who has spent 3 more time on Prozac, working on Prozac, in the 4 past three years than you? 5 MR. MYERS: Systems analyst? 6 MR. GREEN: Yes, systems analyst. 7 A. Yes, I would say that there has 8 been. 9 Q. Who is that? 10 A. It would probably be David 11 Murphy. 12 Q. Is Mr. Murphy still a systems 13 analyst? 14 A. Yes, he is. 15 MR. GREEN: I have no further 16 questions. 17 MR. MYERS: Can I have like a 18 three-minute respite before you start? 19 MS. ZETTLER: Sure. 20 (A SHORT RECESS WAS TAKEN.) 21 * * * * * * * * * * 22 CROSS EXAMINATION 23 BY MS. ZETTLER: 24 Q. Mr. Taylor, my name is Nancy Page 86 1 Zettler, and I represent another group, the 2 Fentress plaintiffs. Can you tell me who 3 Catherine Mesner is? 4 A. Yes, she is a CRA or was a CRA. 5 Q. To your knowledge, does she 6 have any computer experience? 7 A. Not that I know of. 8 Q. Are you aware of the Fluoxetine 9 international project? 10 A. I don't know of anything by 11 that name. 12 Q. Are you aware of a project done 13 sometime in mid -- I think it was begun sometime 14 in mid-1990, in which data from clinical trials 15 run internationally were collected and put on a 16 data base in a rather hurried -- not hurried, but 17 a rather quick fashion? 18 A. I remember some data being 19 collected from international studies, yes. 20 Q. Were you in data entry at that 21 time? 22 A. No, I have never been in data 23 entry. 24 Q. I'm sorry, I thought you were Page 87 1 at one point -- you said the first year that you 2 worked at Lilly you -- 3 A. Okay, yes, I built data entry 4 systems. We -- actually clinical encoding, the 5 department that I referred to before, used to be 6 called data entry. 7 Q. So you didn't actually sit 8 there and enter data? 9 A. No, I've never done that. 10 Q. Just for her benefit, try to 11 let me finish my questions. 12 A. I'm sorry, okay. 13 Q. Let's talk a little bit more 14 about the drug dictionary you talked about 15 earlier, you mentioned a drug dictionary? 16 A. Right. 17 Q. What's a drug dictionary? 18 A. Well, again, these are not 19 dictionaries that I support directly. My 20 understanding of them is that they're a listing 21 of drugs that are on the market, and those terms. 22 Pretty much, that's all I know about it. 23 Q. Is this something that's 24 computerized? Page 88 1 A. Right. 2 Q. Is this something that if you 3 put a drug, a name, into the -- type in a drug 4 name into the computer, that you could get 5 information on that drug, to your knowledge? 6 MR. MYERS: Let me object to the form, 7 you say type into the computer. I mean you're 8 avoiding data bases and things like that. 9 Q. Can you call up information on 10 a particular drug using the drug dictionary? 11 A. I think, yes, I think we have 12 some applications that would allow us to do that -- 13 well, now, what kind of information are you 14 asking about? 15 Q. Just generally. I just want to 16 make sure it's not just a listing of drug names, 17 you know, that there's something more than that. 18 A. That's pretty much all I know 19 about it, it's just a listing of drug names. I 20 don't know what other information that that might 21 contain. 22 Q. Okay. Is it your understanding 23 that it may contain information, though, about 24 the drugs that are listed? Page 89 1 A. I don't know. 2 Q. Have ever heard of the SSAI 3 dictionary? 4 A. No, I don't think I have. 5 Q. Is there a computerized form of 6 the ELECT dictionary? 7 A. Yes, I believe there is. 8 Q. Are you familiar with how that 9 works? 10 A. No, I don't. 11 Q. How about the COSTART 12 dictionary? 13 A. No, I'm not familiar with that. 14 Q. How about the World Health 15 Organization dictionary? 16 MR. MYERS: Is the question is he 17 familiar or does a computerized form exist, 18 because you've asked -- 19 MS. ZETTLER: Familiar. I think he's 20 already testified that the other two are 21 computerized. 22 MR. MYERS: Other two what? 23 MS. ZETTLER: Dictionaries. 24 MR. MYERS: Which ones? Page 90 1 MS. ZETTLER: The WHO dictionary and 2 the COSTART dictionary. 3 A. I believe so. Again, we're out 4 of my realm of expertise here. 5 Q. All my questions are to the 6 best of your knowledge, so if you don't know 7 something, let me know. 8 A. Okay. 9 Q. We don't want you to guess. Do 10 you know what a facility code is? 11 A. Yes, I believe that's a code 12 that determines or shows where a particular 13 protocol, where it was -- where it took place or 14 where it was conducted. 15 Q. Okay. So if a clinical trial 16 is done at a particular site, this site would be 17 given some sort of a code and number or letters 18 or something so that you could enter that into 19 the computer? 20 A. That's correct. 21 Q. Information that's placed into 22 the data bases regarding patients and clinical 23 trials -- 24 A. Uh-huh. Page 91 1 Q. -- is there a code to indicate 2 patient? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Is that a number? 5 A. Yes, it is, as well as initials 6 of that patient. 7 Q. The patient's actual initials? 8 A. Are in the data bases, correct. 9 Q. But if you wanted to pull up 10 the information by number, you could do it solely 11 by number, you don't have to use both? 12 MR. MYERS: Well, before he answers the 13 question, I object to the form. When you say 14 want to pull it up, in what context, who wanted 15 to pull it up? 16 MR. GREEN: I just mean generally. 17 MR. MYERS: Do you understand what 18 she's asking? 19 Q. Could you call up information 20 on a particular patient by that patient's number? 21 A. I don't really understand what 22 you mean call up, do you mean could I -- well, I 23 don't understand what you mean by call up. 24 Q. Can you get information off the Page 92 1 data base regarding a particular patient using 2 that patient's number alone or do you need to put 3 in their initials also? 4 A. You can get it with the number. 5 Q. You have to bear with me, I'm 6 not computer literate, okay. What does it mean 7 to verify data? 8 A. Okay. Again, I think we're -- 9 my understanding of verify -- we're operating 10 outside of my realm of expertise, but we 11 double-key everything that's been brought 12 in-house on CRF's, the clinical encoding group 13 enters it first -- enters it, and then someone 14 else takes the clinical report form and enters it 15 again, and that's verifying, my impression of 16 that term. 17 Q. All right, now I'm confused. 18 The CRF's come in from the site and somebody from 19 data entry puts that information into the -- 20 A. That's correct. 21 Q. -- computer? 22 A. Uh-huh. 23 Q. And then somebody else does it 24 again? I don't understand what that means. Page 93 1 A. Someone else takes the clinical 2 report form and another clinical encoding person, 3 and enters the data again, it's keyed twice. If 4 there are any discrepancies between what the 5 first person entered and what the second person 6 entered, it's highlighted so they take a closer 7 look to make sure they entered the right thing. 8 Q. So it's more of a quality 9 assurance? 10 A. That's correct. 11 MR. MYERS: Let her finish her 12 questions before you answer. 13 Q. Is that the same thing as 14 validating information? 15 A. I'm not sure what information 16 you're talking about. 17 Q. Okay. Well, how about 18 validating data? 19 A. That certainly would be part of 20 it, I don't know if it encompasses the whole of 21 the validating data. 22 Q. I'm just trying to find out the 23 context that it's used. 24 A. Okay. Page 94 1 (PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 2 WAS 2 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AND 3 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.) 4 Q. Have you had a chance to review 5 Exhibit 2? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Are you familiar with that 8 document, do you recognize it? 9 A. I don't remember seeing the 10 document before. 11 Q. Are you familiar with the 12 contents of the document, the subject matter? 13 A. Just one part of it. 14 Q. Which part? 15 A. The part that Allan had typed 16 in or -- I'm not sure who did the typing. The 17 part that says that the list of events was 18 double-checked by me, I remember doing that. 19 Q. Okay. Where are you? 20 A. I'm sorry. It's the fourth 21 paragraph or -- the second paragraph from the 22 bottom on the first page. 23 Q. Starts in order to figure out? 24 A. Yes, it starts there. Page 95 1 Q. Is this just related to 2 bleeding, you did this -- or is this what you 3 did, I'm sorry? 4 A. I'm sorry, say that again? 5 Q. What you did -- you said you 6 remember double-checking the list of events. 7 A. Yes, right. 8 Q. Were those events that were 9 related to bleeding? 10 A. I believe that was the case, 11 yes. Simply what I did is just verified that 12 what -- that the spelling was correct in what 13 Allan had put in the program. 14 Q. Is that the same as what he's 15 talking about or whoever wrote this is talking 16 about in the next paragraph, this list of the 17 illnesses was typed in the program by Allan Weiss 18 and double-checked by Robert Taylor? 19 A. Yes. He had a list and I just 20 checked what he entered into the program. 21 Q. Would you go to the third page 22 of that exhibit? 23 A. Sure. 24 Q. Eight five four two oh is the Page 96 1 number in the bottom right corner? 2 A. Uh-huh. 3 Q. What are these, looks like, 4 abbreviations of some sort on the left-hand side, 5 what are those used for, if you know? 6 A. Those look like -- okay, I'm 7 not familiar with this project other than just 8 what I did for him in validating the spelling. 9 What they look like to me are data elements. 10 Q. What are data elements? 11 A. Okay, they're specific portions 12 of data that are -- for instance, PROJ is the 13 project or is the protocol code. 14 Q. Okay. And underneath that it 15 says PIP, project investigator patient. Would 16 that -- 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Would that indicate their 19 numbers? 20 A. Uh-huh. 21 Q. The PIP would be their numbers, 22 right? 23 A. Yes, it would, the patient 24 portion of that would. Page 97 1 Q. The patient portion. 2 A. Right, that's a field that 3 contains all three of those specific data 4 elements. 5 Q. Okay. So your understanding is 6 that projects were given initials, like HCAC? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. So in this it would be HCAC, 9 and then the investigator's initials? 10 A. It would be a number. 11 Q. Okay. So it would be HCAC, 12 investigator number one, patient number 13 twenty-seven? 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. And what was that PIP number or 16 PIP field used for? 17 A. The -- 18 MR. MYERS: Hold on. Let me object to 19 the form. Do you mean what could a PIP field be 20 used for or what was it used for in the context 21 of this project? 22 Q. What could it be used for. 23 A. It could be used to identify a 24 patient that would have a particular thing that Page 98 1 you're looking for. It's a patient identified is 2 exactly what it is. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. It's also the key. 5 Q. I'm sorry? 6 A. It's also the key of the 7 records in the data base. 8 Q. What do you mean by the key of 9 the records? 10 A. Each record in a data base has 11 to have an individual key so you can refer to 12 that record, and PIP was the key. 13 Q. So that's what we were talking 14 about earlier when I was trying to find out -- 15 inartfully trying to find out if you could call 16 up or access information about a certain patient 17 by their number? 18 A. Right. 19 Q. And the PIP is that number? 20 A. Right, in the old -- the PIP 21 pretty much refers to the -- it was a bit of 22 information that we used to collect with the SAS 23 image, that's how it was stored in the SAS image. 24 Q. You were about to say in the Page 99 1 old? 2 A. It hasn't been changed other 3 than the fields have been split apart. Where you 4 have project investigator information in one 5 field, it's now in three different fields, same 6 information. 7 (PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 3 WAS 8 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AND 9 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.) 10 Q. Have you had a chance to review 11 Exhibit 3? 12 A. Yes, I have. 13 Q. Do you recognize this document, 14 Mr. Taylor? 15 A. I don't think I have ever seen 16 it. 17 Q. Okay. Is there any reason why 18 this document would have been in your Prozac 19 files? 20 A. Well, it certainly has to do 21 with Prozac. I don't know if someone had given 22 me a copy, just handed me a copy, or if I had 23 filed it, or what. I don't remember seeing this. 24 Q. Okay. The schematic, for lack Page 100 1 of a better phrase, on the second page, do you 2 understand what this is? 3 A. Well, yes, I am familiar with 4 it. 5 Q. What does it represent? 6 A. It represents some of the 7 movement of data in which I have described some 8 of the data bases already. It's pretty much a 9 schematic of how that works. 10 Q. Okay. On the left, above the 11 first box on the left, it says Entrex? 12 A. That's correct. 13 Q. And what's the converter that 14 the arrow points to? 15 A. That's what -- that's what 16 converts data into the format that can be read by 17 the IBM main frame in the transition from the AS 18 four hundred, or in this case they refer to it as 19 a systems thirty-eight, which is kind of the same 20 thing, to the main frame. 21 Q. So these three boxes at the 22 top, Prozac nonstandard data set, with the Entrex 23 above it, the same thing with the middle box, but 24 is that a systems thirty-eight, looks like, 1986 Page 101 1 above it? 2 A. Yes. Let me back up here and 3 say that's a standard data set. 4 Q. It's a what? 5 A. I add that's a standard data 6 set. Actually, what I said before, when I said 7 converting, it's actually the converter that 8 changes the data, as we've describe before, from 9 the image to the standard SAS data set, not from 10 the AS four hundred to the IBM. 11 Q. Okay. So all of these three 12 boxes at the top represent data that was 13 converted? 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. Why was that data converted? 16 A. It has to do with something 17 that we referred to on the last document where we 18 had PIP, and we changed that to three specific 19 variables instead of one, three fields. It was 20 things like that. 21 Q. So there were other fields that 22 were changed also? 23 A. I'm not -- I don't know, I 24 didn't work on this project. Page 102 1 Q. Do you know if this type of 2 conversion was done with any other of Lilly's 3 products, information on any other of Lilly's 4 products? 5 A. I wouldn't be able to answer 6 that. 7 Q. Who would know that in the 8 department, if anybody? 9 A. I'm not sure, I'm not sure who 10 would know that information. 11 Q. How about these boxes on the 12 right, what do those represent? 13 A. It's my impression, and again, 14 it's just what my understanding of this document 15 is. My impression is that what they did was 16 differentiate between nonstandard Prozac data and 17 standard Prozac data. So all of these things 18 here have to do with the way that we had put 19 these things in the fields. These were different 20 ways that we did it, okay. The one over towards 21 the right, we were doing it in a standard format 22 that we were looking to get to down at the 23 bottom. The others had to be converted to that 24 format through this other line over here, on the Page 103 1 left. 2 Q. Okay. Now when you say 3 standard format, what do you mean? 4 A. What I mean by that is that we 5 now refer to project investigator patient as a 6 standard format rather than PIP. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. We brought it up to standard, 9 we made everything the same so that we could -- 10 our programs didn't have to do that in the 11 programs themselves, we did it in the data base 12 so the programs didn't have to do it later. 13 Q. And then what would nonstandard 14 be? 15 A. Nonstandard would be PIP, where 16 it was all together, things like that. 17 Q. Okay. What was the reason to 18 change all the data? 19 A. Because, as I described, so 20 that it wouldn't have to be included. Whenever 21 the analysis would take place, it would have to 22 be -- that standardization would have to take 23 place to get all the data together. Rather than 24 put it -- add that code and things to each Page 104 1 program, the data base itself was changed so that 2 that code didn't have to be included in those 3 programs. 4 Q. Okay. So it was to make access 5 to the information in the data bases easier? 6 A. It was to make it -- right, 7 that's correct. 8 Q. Okay. Do you recall the 9 Fluoxetine international data gathering project? 10 A. That's the one that we -- I 11 think that you mentioned earlier. 12 MR. MYERS: It didn't have data 13 gathering in the title, I think. 14 Q. So you don't remember it? 15 A. I remember hearing of it, I 16 didn't participate in it. 17 Q. Have you ever heard the term 18 EMS data? 19 A. Yes, I have. 20 Q. What is that? 21 A. EMS is a platform that exists 22 in England, it's like the AS four hundred. I 23 think it's actually a name of a machine, maybe. 24 Q. What is JCL, if you know? Page 105 1 A. It's job control language. 2 Q. Okay. And how would you use 3 job control, if you can give me a brief 4 description of what job control language is. 5 A. Job control language is a 6 language that pretty much is included with 7 programs on the IBM that control where the output 8 goes as well as the area of disk space that that 9 program needs to use in it's -- in running, in 10 the CPU, and things like that. 11 Q. How about PIPV's? 12 A. PIPV's is the PIPV, project 13 investigator patient visit. 14 Q. Batch edit programs? 15 A. Batch edit programs are some of 16 the programs that we had mentioned earlier where 17 the -- that flag data that looks to be, you know, 18 like the eight hundred over one hundred and 19 twenty for a blood pressure. And they run a 20 batch, which means that they run not 21 interactively, but on a periodic basis. 22 Q. Is there a systems analyst 23 department for marketing? 24 A. I don't know. Page 106 1 Q. What would marketing 2 information systems be, if you know? 3 A. I guess that would be 4 department, if there is one, I'm not -- I don't 5 work with people in there. 6 Q. Do you know Vicki Krough? 7 A. No, I don't. 8 Q. Are you familiar with the term 9 OUS Prozac metrics? 10 MR. MYERS: Excuse me? 11 MS. ZETTLER: OUS Prozac metrics, 12 M-E-T-R-I-C-S. 13 A. No, I'm not familiar with that. 14 Q. Were you ever involved in 15 computerizing CRF's? 16 A. I'm not sure what we mean -- 17 what do you mean by computerizing CRF's? 18 Q. Is it your understanding that 19 clinical report forms were in hard form and then 20 there was a computer form on the clinical report? 21 A. There's not a computer form in 22 the clinical report form anywhere that I know of, 23 there's not an image of that clinical report 24 form. The data is stored in physical files and Page 107 1 in data sets. As it gets moved through these -- 2 the terminology is different from the AS four 3 hundred than from the SAS -- from the IBM main 4 frame. An image of the clinical report form 5 doesn't get stored anywhere, that I know of. 6 Q. So when -- when you talked 7 about the CRF's coming in and then being entered 8 into the data bases, you're talking about using 9 it on these data sets? 10 A. They actually get put into 11 physical files. The terminology on the AS four 12 hundred is a physical file, and it's just a 13 series of related data. Correct, they just get 14 inserted into those physical files, the data. 15 Q. Is it your understanding that 16 at some point the clinical investigators were 17 actually given computers which they used to fill 18 out the CRF's, for lack of a better term? 19 A. Yes, that did happen. 20 Q. So this wasn't an actual form 21 that was on -- in other words, if you looked at 22 the computer screen, it wouldn't be similar to 23 the hard copy CRF's? 24 MR. MYERS: When you say look at the Page 108 1 computer screen, you're talking a lot of 2 computers. Which screen? 3 Q. At the clinical investigation 4 site. 5 A. There are programs that -- when 6 I mentioned data entry programs that we write, 7 there are programs that are written over the top 8 of the physical files, and these specific 9 programs, when you access certain data, they can 10 reach into the physical file and pull it out. 11 The data is not stored that way, it's stored in 12 line, pretty much like a line-by-line format. 13 But these programs are written over the top so 14 that you can pull that out, and that's how -- the 15 data entry screens that I mentioned earlier, 16 that's what I was referring to. 17 Q. Do you know if there was a 18 different data entry screen for the clinical 19 report forms from trials done outside of the 20 U.S.? 21 A. I don't know how they made 22 those. 23 Q. Have you ever heard of a CTE? 24 A. CTE, no, I haven't. Page 109 1 Q. Do you know what a time study 2 is? 3 A. No, I don't. 4 Q. Have you ever heard of Jan 5 Fawcett, Dr. Jan Fawcett? 6 A. I think I have heard the name 7 before. 8 Q. Besides hearing the name, do 9 you know him at all or know of him at all besides 10 seeing the name? 11 A. No, actually I didn't even know 12 it was a him. 13 Q. Okay. What is a hit program, 14 if you know? 15 A. I don't know. 16 Q. Do you know what an adverse 17 event checklist is? 18 A. Yes, I do. 19 Q. What is that? 20 A. I believe it was something that 21 was used -- that's used outside of the United 22 States where they have a listing of adverse 23 events, and they ask the patient if they have 24 them and they check whether or not they have. Page 110 1 That's pretty much all I know about that. 2 Q. What are pullability criteria -- 3 I know I'm going to regret asking this. 4 A. Pullability criteria. 5 Q. If you know. 6 A. I don't know what that specific 7 term would -- what they would be referring to. 8 Q. Do you know what an ITSO data 9 base is? 10 A. The ITSO is the application 11 that we use to -- it's like an operating system 12 for the SAS data bases. 13 Q. What do you mean by operating 14 system? 15 A. It's equivalent to DOS on many 16 computers -- yes, many computers, microcomputers. 17 Q. Is ITSO something that Lilly 18 created? 19 A. I don't know, I don't think so. 20 Q. Have you ever heard of a 21 two-part CRF? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Have you ever heard of an OUSDE 24 system prototype or DE system? Page 111 1 A. I think it was the data entry 2 system that was -- it was a prototype of the data 3 entry system that was used to collect the data 4 that came from outside of the U.S. 5 Q. I may have asked you this 6 earlier, and if I did, I apologize, but what is 7 WARS, W-A-R-S, if you know? 8 A. I don't know what that is. It 9 has something to do with labs, but I don't know 10 what it is. 11 Q. What's the Amesergide Study, 12 A-M-E-S-E-R-G-I-D-E? 13 A. A-M -- 14 Q. E-S-E-R-G-I-D-E. Amesergide or -- 15 A. Oh, that's Amesergide. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. That has nothing to do with 18 Fluoxetine. 19 Q. Are you aware of any studies 20 where Fluoxetine was used as a comparitor? 21 MR. MYERS: In? 22 Q. I'm trying to say the word, 23 okay, how do you pronounce it? 24 A. Amesergide. Page 112 1 Q. Amesergide study. 2 A. Yes, I believe it was, I 3 believe it was at one time used as a comparitor 4 in one of the studies. 5 Q. Do you know what kind of drug 6 Amesergide is? 7 A. Uh-huh. 8 Q. A drug, do you know what kind 9 of drug that is? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Is it an anti-depressant? 12 A. Yes, it is. That's what I've 13 been studying for. 14 Q. Do you know if the information 15 from the Fluoxetine Amesergide study was included 16 in the Fluoxetine safety updates to the FDA? 17 A. I don't know, I don't know. 18 Q. Why is it that AS four hundred 19 data cannot be cleaned or be considered clean? 20 A. It's not because -- because it 21 exists in an area that's accessible by the CRA's, 22 and when it's moved to the SAS, the MVS host, 23 that's where it's considered clean, and after a 24 study is over, locked. Page 113 1 Q. And what is a Tess, T-E-S-S? 2 A. Treatment Emergent Sign and 3 Symptom. 4 Q. What are Plan D studies? 5 A. My understanding is that 6 they're studies that happen after the compound is 7 approved and on the market, that's my 8 understanding. 9 Q. Did anybody ever ask you for 10 data on hostility or violence aggression? 11 A. I don't recall doing that. 12 Q. What is a data base 13 administrator? 14 A. They are the designers of the 15 format of the data base, record lengths, things 16 like that. 17 Q. Earlier you said that you were 18 aware that there were three studies that you 19 worked in some fashion on, two of them were 20 obesity studies. Do you know who the 21 investigators are, do you know the names of the 22 investigators on those studies? 23 A. No, I don't. 24 MS. ZETTLER: I might be done, but I Page 114 1 want to take a look at the rest of these. 2 (DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD.) 3 (PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 4 WAS 4 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AND 5 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.) 6 Q. Have you had a chance to look 7 at Exhibit 4? 8 A. I have. 9 Q. Can you tell me what that is, 10 if you know? 11 A. It looks like a DEN request 12 sheet, but that's all I know about it. 13 Q. Okay. When you say a DEN 14 request sheet, what do you mean? 15 A. Someone is -- I don't work with 16 this system at all, but what this looks like is 17 someone requested information from DEN. 18 Q. Okay. And then where it says 19 computed using the query package, looks like it's 20 supposed to be -- 21 A. Uh-huh. 22 Q. -- include names of library and 23 programs, and then it lists them, looks like, 24 sort of words underneath. Page 115 1 A. Right. 2 Q. What would those be, not 3 specifically, but generally, I mean are those 4 queries or -- 5 A. I could just assume that 6 they're libraries and programs, I don't know. 7 Q. Is there any reason why this 8 would be listed in your file? 9 A. I don't remember seeing this. 10 Q. Okay. And do they have similar 11 types of forms for your area, the area you work 12 in? 13 MR. MYERS: Similar request forms? 14 MS. ZETTLER: Right. 15 A. We have requests forms, I don't 16 know what you would describe as similar. 17 Q. I mean in other words, do you 18 have forms that people would say we want this 19 data and here's a form asking for it? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Would you keep request forms in 22 your files? 23 A. Not in my files. 24 Q. Where would they be kept? Page 116 1 A. They're kept in a Fluoxetine 2 binder of ad hoc requests. 3 Q. At the bottom of the first page 4 of Exhibit 4, it has an analyst signature. Is 5 there something similar to that on the ad hoc 6 request forms that you had for your area? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. MS. ZETTLER: That's all I have 9 except that I want to make a record that I don't 10 think that the documents, and I'm not saying this 11 was done intentionally or anything like that, but 12 I believe that the documents that were produced 13 for Mr. Taylor's deposition today for the most 14 part are not his documents. There were a couple 15 in here with his name on it, maybe three or four, 16 and the vast majority of the rest of them appear 17 to be related to Cathy Mesner. 18 MR. MYERS: Well, in response to that, 19 all I can tell you is it's my belief that in fact 20 his documents were produced, but I will certainly 21 make that inquiry to confirm that one way or 22 another. 23 MS. ZETTLER: Okay. I mean if it's the 24 case, then if we can just have a tentative Page 117 1 understanding that if it's the case that his 2 documents haven't been produced, we just reserve 3 the right to take a look at his documents once 4 they're produced, and if we have any questions 5 related to his documents, we will bring him back. 6 MR. MYERS: If that in fact has 7 happened, which I don't think it has, but I will 8 check, we will consider that. 9 MS. ZETTLER: Let's put it this way: 10 Wasn't it his laundry list of things to do, 11 Larry, or other similiar -- either that or 12 somebody is putting their to-do list in your 13 files, Mr. Taylor. 14 MR. MYERS: Anybody else have any 15 questions? 16 MR. GREEN: No further questions. 17 MS. LAWS: No questions. 18 MR. CLEMENTI: No questions. 19 MS. BRODSKY: No questions. 20 (THE WITNESS WAS EXCUSED.) Page 118 1 COMMONWEALTH OF KENTUCKY ) 2 : ss COUNTY OF JEFFERSON ) 3 4 I, MARY KATHLEEN NOLD, A NOTARY PUBLIC IN 5 AND FOR THE STATE OF KENTUCKY AT LARGE, DO HEREBY 6 CERTIFY THAT THE FOREGOING TESTIMONY OF 7 ROBERT TAYLOR 8 WAS TAKEN BEFORE ME AT THE TIME AND PLACE AS 9 STATED IN THE CAPTION; THAT THE WITNESS WAS FIRST 10 DULY SWORN TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, 11 AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH; THAT THE SAID 12 PROCEEDINGS WERE TAKEN DOWN BY ME IN STENOGRAPHIC 13 NOTES AND AFTERWARDS TRANSCRIBED UNDER MY 14 DIRECTION; THAT IT IS A TRUE, COMPLETE AND 15 CORRECT TRANSCRIPT OF THE SAID PROCEEDINGS SO 16 HAD; THAT THE APPEARANCES WERE AS STATED IN THE 17 CAPTION. 18 WITNESS MY SIGNATURE THIS THE 9TH DAY OF 19 SEPTEMBER, 1993. 20 MY COMMISSION EXPIRES MARCH 10, 1994. 21 22 23 _________________________ MARY KATHLEEN NOLD 24 COURT REPORTER AND NOTARY PUBLIC STATE OF KENTUCKY AT LARGE Page 119 1 2 3 E R R A T A S H E E T 4 5 STATE OF INDIANA ) : SS 6 COUNTY OF ) 7 8 I, ROBERT TAYLOR, THE UNDERSIGNED 9 DEPONENT, HAVE THIS DATE READ THE FOREGOING PAGES 10 OF MY DEPOSITION AND WITH THE CHANGES NOTED 11 BELOW, IF ANY, THESE PAGES CONSTITUTE A TRUE AND 12 ACCURATE TRANSCRIPTION OF MY DEPOSITION GIVEN ON 13 THE AUGUST 12, 1993 AT THE TIME AND PLACE STATED 14 THEREIN. 15 PAGE NO. LINE NO. CHANGE REASON Page 120 1 2 PAGE NO. LINE NO. CHANGE REASON 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 _____________________________ 10 ROBERT TAYLOR 11 SWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED BEFORE ME THIS 12 _____ DAY OF __________, 1993. 13 _____________________________ NOTARY PUBLIC, STATE OF 14 INDIANA AT LARGE Page 121 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 Page 122 1 DIRECT EXAMINATIONBY MR. GREEN:...................14 2 CROSS EXAMINATIONBY MS. ZETTLER:..................86 3 COMMONWEALTH.....................................119 4 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 1.........................60 5 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 2.........................95 6 PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 3........................100 7 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 4........................115 8 STATE OF INDIANA.................................120 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Page 123