1 1 NO. 90-CI-06033 JEFFERSON CIRCUIT COURT DIVISION ONE 2 3 4 JOYCE FENTRESS, et al PLAINTIFFS 5 6 VS TRANSCRIPT_OF_THE_PROCEEDINGS __________ __ ___ ___________ 7 8 9 SHEA COMMUNICATIONS, et al DEFENDANTS 10 11 * * * 12 13 14 THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 1994 15 VOLUME XXIX 16 17 * * * 18 19 20 21 _____________________________________________________________ REPORTER: JULIA K. McBRIDE 22 Coulter, Shay, McBride & Rice 1221 Starks Building 23 455 South Fourth Avenue Louisville, Kentucky 40202 24 (502) 582-1627 FAX: (502) 587-6299 25 2 1 2 I_N_D_E_X _ _ _ _ _ 3 WITNESS: CHARLES_BRYAN _______ _______ _____ 4 By Mr. Stopher........................................... 6 5 6 WITNESS: GRADY_THRONEBERRY _______ _____ ___________ 7 By Mr. Stopher........................................... 14 By Mr. Smith............................................. 85 8 By Mr. Stopher...........................................100 By Mr. Smith.............................................100 9 10 WITNESS: DOUGLAS_SOWDERS _______ _______ _______ 11 By Mr. Stopher...........................................104 12 WITNESS: KATHLEEN_MAHONEY _______ ________ _______ 13 By Mr. Stopher...........................................108 14 15 * * * 16 Reporter's Certificate...................................112 17 18 * * * 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 2 A_P_P_E_A_R_A_N_C_E_S _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 3 4 FOR THE PLAINTIFFS: 5 PAUL L. SMITH Suite 745 6 Campbell Center II 8150 North Central Expressway 7 Dallas, Texas 75206 8 NANCY ZETTLER 1405 West Norwell Lane 9 Schaumburg, Illinois 60193 10 FOR THE DEFENDANT: 11 EDWARD H. STOPHER 12 Boehl, Stopher & Graves 2300 Providian Center 13 Louisville, Kentucky 40202 14 JOE C. FREEMAN, JR. LAWRENCE J. MYERS 15 Freeman & Hawkins 4000 One Peachtree Center 16 303 Peachtree Street, N.E. Atlanta, Georgia 30308 17 18 * * * 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 The Transcript of the Proceedings, taken before 2 The Honorable John Potter in the Multipurpose Courtroom, Old 3 Jail Office Building, Louisville, Kentucky, commencing on 4 Thursday, November 3, 1994, at approximately 9:05 A.M., said 5 proceedings occurred as follows: 6 7 * * * 8 9 SHERIFF CECIL: All rise. The Honorable Judge 10 John Potter is now presiding. All jurors are present. Court 11 is now in session. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Please be seated. Ladies and 13 gentlemen of the jury, did any of you have any difficulty 14 observing my admonition over the evening recess? Is there 15 anybody I haven't called on? How about you, Ms. Whitehouse? 16 I know I've called on you; I'll start around again. 17 JUROR WHITEHOUSE: Everything's perfect. 18 JUDGE POTTER: Oh, wow. It doesn't have to be 19 that good. 20 JUROR WHITEHOUSE: I have them trained. 21 JUDGE POTTER: You have them trained. Okay. 22 Mr. Stopher, do you want to call you next 23 witness? 24 MR. STOPHER: Yes, Your Honor. Mr. Charles 25 Bryan. I hope he's here; he's on his way and, if not, it may 5 1 be a 30-second wait. 2 Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I told you-all 3 a small lie the other day when I was talking about the prison 4 population and I said it was something I often compared to my 5 garage. It was really something I kind of thought up on the 6 spur of the moment. The more I think about it, the more I 7 like it. The reason my garage is full is because I haven't 8 managed my affairs very well outside the garage. And I'm 9 really developing a whole scenario. And I'm thinking is that 10 the reason our prisons are full is because we haven't managed 11 our affairs very well outside the penitentiary? I'm 12 developing a real thing here I've been rolling around in my 13 head. Maybe in the end we'll get a better analogy. I 14 remember I said I often compared it; that's not true. I 15 thought that one up as I was kind of rolling. 16 Raise your right hand, please. 17 18 CHARLES BRYAN, after first being duly sworn, was 19 examined and testified as follows: 20 21 JUDGE POTTER: Would you walk around there and 22 have a seat in the witness box. Would you state your full 23 name loudly and clearly for the jury and then spell your last 24 name for me, please. 25 MR. BRYAN: Charles William Bryan, B-R-Y-A-N. 6 1 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. And, Mr. Bryan, if you'll 2 have a seat, keep your voice up and answer Mr. Stopher's 3 questions. 4 5 EXAMINATION ___________ 6 7 BY_MR._STOPHER: __ ___ _______ 8 Q. MR. STOPHER: Mr. Bryan, where do you presently 9 live, sir? 10 A. 1924 Goldsmith Lane, Unit 53, Louisville, 11 Kentucky 40218. 12 Q. And how old are you, sir? 13 A. Fifty-eight. 14 Q. Mr. Bryan, you were employed at Standard 15 Gravure? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. About when did you start there, sir? 18 A. 15th of February, '67. 19 Q. And when did you stop working there, sir? 20 A. I guess, the 4th of February, '92. That's when 21 everybody -- 22 Q. That's when they closed the plant? 23 A. Right. But I was off on disability before that. 24 Q. When did you go off on disability, sir? Do you 25 recall approximately? 7 1 A. 8th of February of 1990, last day. 2 Q. All right. So you were there working actively 3 from 1967 until the early part of 1990? 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. All right, sir. Were you a pressman, sir? 6 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. And did you work in the pressroom those years? 8 A. Yes, sir. 9 Q. Mr. Bryan, you were there both before and after 10 Mike Shea purchased the company; is that true, sir? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. Was there any difference in the pressroom before 13 he bought the company and after he bought the company? 14 A. Well, yeah. It just turned from a good job to a 15 hell hole, more or less. 16 Q. In what way, sir? 17 A. In any way you can think of. 18 Q. Well, in terms of the working conditions for the 19 pressmen, what was different about it, sir? 20 A. Just -- I don't really know how to put it in 21 words. Just everything -- just a lot of stress, just wasn't 22 good. 23 Q. Was there stress in connection with running the 24 presses? 25 A. Why, sure. A lot of people -- I refused to do 8 1 it, myself. 2 MS. ZETTLER: Your Honor, may we be heard for a 3 second? 4 (BENCH DISCUSSION) 5 MS. ZETTLER: Again, Your Honor, we're going to 6 go through the whole folder thing and this is cumulative. I 7 think the jury's got the point that it was difficult to work 8 on the folder and that Mr. Wesbecker didn't like working on 9 the folder and wanted to be off the folder. 10 MR. STOPHER: Actually, Judge, I'm just doing 11 this to get to the important part about what he knows about 12 Wesbecker. I'll move on. I'm not going to spend much time on 13 it. 14 MS. ZETTLER: Also, Judge, this man seems from 15 his deposition to have a drinking problem. He tends to 16 ramble. I'd like Mr. Stopher not to give him the opportunity 17 to ramble on. He throws all kinds of stuff in there about 18 Prozac and how he didn't do -- 19 MR. STOPHER: I have specifically instructed him 20 in writing not to talk about Prozac, so I will stop him if he 21 starts trying to do that. 22 JUDGE POTTER: All right. 23 (BENCH DISCUSSION CONCLUDED) 24 Q. Mr. Bryan, going back to where we were, sir, did 25 the pressure or the stress relate in any way to the speed of 9 1 the presses after Mr. Shea came in? 2 A. Oh, he wanted to increase speed on everything. 3 Q. And what was the attitude of the pressmen toward 4 Mr. Shea and his management style? 5 A. Repeat that, please? 6 Q. What was the attitude in the pressroom toward 7 Mr. Shea? 8 A. Well, I don't know for -- I can't speak for 9 everybody, but most people just didn't have any respect for 10 the man and more or less didn't have any use for the man 11 whatsoever. 12 Q. Did you ever hear Mr. Wesbecker speak about Mike 13 Shea or the management people? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. What sorts of things would he say about Mr. Shea 16 and people in management? 17 A. Really, I don't know. The man didn't say a 18 whole lot different from anybody else would say if they were 19 mad about something. 20 Q. Mr. Bryan, did you become aware that Mr. 21 Wesbecker also went onto disability or LTD? 22 MS. ZETTLER: Objection. Leading. 23 JUDGE POTTER: Overruled. 24 Q. Can you give us the answer, sir? 25 A. I knew he went on it; right. 10 1 Q. After he went on disability, sir, did you ever 2 see him around the facility at Standard Gravure? 3 A. Only once on Armory Place. 4 Q. And how did you happen to see him there on 5 Armory Place? 6 A. I was coming out of the bar over at S & H Bar, 7 walked across the street and there he was. 8 Q. Did you talk to him, sir? 9 A. Uh-huh. Yes. 10 Q. And what was he doing there, sir? 11 A. He was just talking to me. 12 Q. What did you and he talk about? 13 A. About disabilities, about this, that and the 14 other. 15 Q. Did he ever say anything about Standard Gravure? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Did he say he was coming back? 18 A. He said, "I'll be back," and then we parted 19 company. 20 Q. Why did he say he was coming back? 21 MS. ZETTLER: Objection, calls for speculation. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Well, if you know, sir. 23 A. I have no idea why he said he'd be back. 24 Q. Did he say what he was going to do when he came 25 back, sir? 11 1 A. No, sir. 2 Q. Did he ever say he was going to get even? 3 A. Oh, yeah. But that was -- I've heard that 4 statement from more than one. 5 MS. ZETTLER: I'm going to object. He's making 6 it sound like this get-even business happened in that last 7 conversation on the sidewalk, and it did not. 8 JUDGE POTTER: All right. Mr. Stopher, if you 9 can be more specific about your time. 10 MR. STOPHER: Certainly, sir. 11 Mr. Bryan, do you recall when it was that he 12 said he was going to get even? 13 A. No. 14 Q. On this occasion that you saw him on Armory 15 Place, sir, this was after he was on disability? 16 A. It was approximately the same time. I think he 17 went out of there in August on disability and it was along 18 about -- it was July, August of that same year, during warm 19 weather. 20 Q. And did he tell you why he was back there at the 21 plant? 22 A. No. 23 MS. ZETTLER: Asked and answered. 24 JUDGE POTTER: Overruled. 25 Q. Did he tell you anything about his disability? 12 1 A. No. 2 Q. Did he tell you why he was on disability? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Did he tell you how he liked being on 5 disability? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Didn't mention any specifics about it; right, 8 sir? 9 A. Not really, no. 10 Q. Mr. Bryan, did he ever discuss guns with you? 11 A. Yes, just very little, if any. 12 Q. What did he tell you about guns? 13 A. Well, he had magazines, like different magazines 14 and all that, you know, had different pictures of guns and 15 stuff, you know, but most people down there owned a weapon of 16 some type, I would venture to say. 17 Q. And did you ever see him bring a weapon or a gun 18 into the facility? 19 A. No, sir. 20 Q. During the time that you talked to him, sir, did 21 he discuss ever with you wanting to harm anybody or commit any 22 violent acts against Standard Gravure? 23 A. No, not really. No. 24 Q. Not really? Did he ever discuss mental illness 25 with you, sir? 13 1 A. No, sir. 2 Q. Did anybody at Standard Gravure ever tease about 3 Joe Wesbecker's mental illness? 4 A. Well, they'd tease about everybody. He wasn't 5 singled out as an individual. I imagine -- you know, I 6 imagine if the truth was known, on the morning of the actual 7 shooting there was probably several different names came up 8 before he ever showed up at the door. 9 MS. ZETTLER: Your Honor -- 10 Q. Let me interrupt you, Mr. Bryan, and tell you 11 that my question was, was Joe Wesbecker ever teased about 12 mental illness. 13 A. I don't know. I never was present when everyone 14 teased him, but I'm sure he was. There was people commenting 15 in the locker room about him. 16 MS. ZETTLER: Your Honor, objection. 17 JUDGE POTTER: Overruled. 18 Q. Do you recall any statements made to him or by 19 him or any signs on the bulletin board of that nature? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Nothing specific? 22 A. No. 23 Q. That's all I have. Thank you, sir. 24 MS. ZETTLER: No questions, Your Honor. 25 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you very much, sir. You 14 1 may step down; you're excused. 2 Mr. Stopher, do you want to call your next 3 witness? 4 MR. STOPHER: Yes, Your Honor. Grady 5 Throneberry. 6 JUDGE POTTER: Sir, would you raise your right 7 hand, please. 8 9 GRADY THRONEBERRY, after first being duly sworn, 10 was examined and testified as follows: 11 12 JUDGE POTTER: Would you have a seat in the 13 witness box there. Would you state your full name loudly and 14 clearly for the jury and then spell your name. 15 MR. THRONEBERRY: Yes. It's Grady L. 16 Throneberry. Last name is T-H-R-O-N-E-B-E-R-R-Y. 17 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Throneberry, if you'd keep 18 your voice up and answer Mr. Stopher's questions. 19 MR. THRONEBERRY: Yes, sir. 20 21 EXAMINATION ___________ 22 23 BY_MR._STOPHER: __ ___ ________ 24 Q. Mr. Throneberry, where do you live, sir? 25 A. 9017 Fawn Court in Louisville. 15 1 Q. And is that here in Louisville? 2 A. Yes, sir. 3 Q. All right. And how old are you, sir? 4 A. Forty. 5 Q. And by whom are you employed, sir? 6 A. Cellular Advantage. 7 Q. I take it that has something to do with cellular 8 phones? 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. Prior to that, by whom were you employed, sir? 11 A. Davis Electronics and the Prudential Insurance 12 Company. 13 Q. And what sort of work did you do for Davis 14 Electronics? 15 A. I was in sales. 16 Q. And did you say Prudential Insurance or 17 Securities? 18 A. Insurance. 19 Q. And what did you do for Prudential Insurance? 20 A. Sales. 21 Q. What did you do before that, sir? 22 A. I was with Standard Gravure Corporation. 23 Q. And when were you with Standard Gravure? 24 A. From 1988 until 1992, I guess. 25 Q. I thought you resigned in 1990, sir. Am I 16 1 wrong? 2 A. No. I think you're right. I think it was 1987 3 to 1990. 4 Q. And when you were with Standard Gravure, sir, as 5 an employee, did you have a title? 6 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. And what was that? 8 A. I was the safety and security manager. 9 Q. And as safety and security manager, what 10 generally did you do, sir? 11 A. I was responsible for accident prevention, 12 workers' compensation, some environmental issues and security. 13 Q. Would that include the security of the Standard 14 Gravure facility? 15 A. Yes, sir. 16 Q. And the security of the people that worked 17 there? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Now, sir, prior to being with Standard Gravure, 20 by whom were you employed, sir? 21 A. I was self-employed. 22 Q. And what was the nature of your self-employed 23 business, sir? 24 A. I owned a security business. 25 Q. And what was the name of that business, sir? 17 1 A. Business Security Group. 2 Q. And how long were you self-employed and 3 operating Business Security Group? 4 A. For about two years. 5 Q. Would that be from approximately 1985 to 1987, 6 sir? 7 A. Approximately, yes. 8 Q. What did you do before that, sir? 9 A. I was employed by The Courier-Journal. 10 Q. And when were you employed by The Courier- 11 Journal? 12 A. From '82 until '87. 13 Q. And what was your job title there, sir? 14 A. It was the safety and security supervisor. 15 Q. Were you in charge of safety and security at The 16 Courier? 17 A. No. 18 Q. There was someone over you that was? 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 Q. Prior to 1982, how were you employed, sir? 21 A. I was a Jefferson County policeman. 22 Q. And what was your rank or job title or duties 23 there, sir? 24 A. I was a patrol officer. 25 Q. And how long did you work with the Jefferson 18 1 County Police? 2 A. Five years. 3 Q. That will take us back to about 1977? 4 A. Yes, sir. 5 Q. '77 to '82? 6 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. And what did you do before that, sir? 8 A. I was a police officer in a small city. 9 Q. And what city was that? 10 A. The City of Plantation. 11 Q. That's here in Louisville, of course? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Were you the chief of police or were you a 14 patrolman? 15 A. No, sir. Patrolman. 16 Q. All right. And how long did you hold that 17 position, sir? 18 A. For a year and a half. 19 Q. What did you do before that, sir? 20 A. Sold cars. 21 Q. And where did you do that, sir? 22 A. What was then Sam Pottinger Ford. 23 Q. About how long were you employed in that 24 capacity? 25 A. About a year and a half. 19 1 Q. What did you do before that? 2 A. I think I was in school. 3 Q. All right. Did you attend college in this area, 4 sir? 5 A. Yes, sir. 6 Q. And where did you go to school? 7 A. University of Louisville. 8 Q. And what sort of a degree did you get there, 9 sir? 10 A. A bachelor's degree. 11 Q. B.S. degree? 12 A. B.A. 13 Q. B.A. degree. Mr. Throneberry, have you ever 14 studied, in a formal school setting, security, private 15 security? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Where did you study private security? 18 A. At the University of Louisville. 19 Q. And when was that, sir? 20 A. Probably in the late '70s. '78 or '79. 21 Q. And was that while you were employed by the 22 Jefferson County Police? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Did you take numerous courses there in private 25 security? 20 1 A. No. 2 Q. How much course work did you get in private 3 security? 4 A. Six hours, I think. 5 Q. Now, Mr. Throneberry, at the time that you were 6 operating the group called Business Security Group, which is 7 in the time frame, if I understand correctly, from roughly 8 1985 to 1987, were you the principal officer and owner of 9 that? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And what was the business of Business Security 12 Group? 13 A. We were a guard service. 14 Q. And what is a guard service, at least as you 15 operated at that time, sir? 16 A. We provided uniformed security officers for 17 various companies. 18 Q. And who did you provide that for, sir? 19 A. Principally for Standard Gravure and WHAS Radio 20 and then some smaller companies. 21 Q. At the same time that you were doing that, sir, 22 were you also operating a hot tub company? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. What was the name of that, sir? 25 A. It was called Good Clean Fun. 21 1 Q. Were you the owner and operator of the hot tub 2 business? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Let me show you, sir, a copy of a document. Can 5 you identify this document for us, please, sir? 6 A. Yes. It's the contract between Business 7 Security Group and Standard Gravure for security services. 8 Q. And Business Security Group was your 9 organization; correct, sir? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. This document is apparently dated November 21, 12 1986; correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And it's apparently signed by Business Security 15 Group, Incorporated, by Grady Throneberry, and Standard 16 Gravure, Inc., by -- it looks like Joe Woolfolk? 17 A. Yes. 18 MR. STOPHER: Your Honor, this document has been 19 previously marked and filed as Defendant's Exhibit 157. I do 20 have extra copies here if -- 21 JUDGE POTTER: Madame Sheriff, if you'll publish 22 the document. 23 MR. SMITH: May we approach, Your Honor? 24 (BENCH DISCUSSION) 25 MR. SMITH: I don't think this document has been 22 1 admitted into evidence. I think I previously lodged a hearsay 2 objection which was sustained. In addition to hearsay, we 3 would lodge the objection this is immaterial and irrelevant. 4 Business Security Group wasn't the security company that was 5 responsible for security at the time. This agreement is only 6 up until December 1987. It has no relevance or materiality to 7 any issue in this lawsuit. 8 JUDGE POTTER: My notes would indicate that it 9 has been introduced into evidence through Ms. Warman. This 10 was our deal, those daily sheets that come out, and if you 11 don't object, then what's on the sheet counts. Also, I think 12 it is relevant because what he's trying to do is establish 13 this guy's relationship with the security company that was 14 doing the security and its criticism I guess of Standard 15 Gravure or him as an employee of Standard Gravure. So this is 16 the one where he gets a share; is that right? This is where 17 he sold it to them? 18 MR. STOPHER: Right. This is the document that 19 he had right before he sold it to them. 20 JUDGE POTTER: What's the next one? 21 MR. STOPHER: The next one is the assignment of 22 his contract to the other group that came in where he gets the 23 percentage. 24 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Objection is overruled. 25 (BENCH DISCUSSION CONCLUDED) 23 1 MR. STOPHER: Your Honor, if it would be 2 permissible, it may be a good idea to distribute this again. 3 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Madame Sheriff, will you 4 publish it and then at the end of the break pick it up again. 5 SHERIFF CECIL: (Hands document to jurors). 6 Q. Mr. Throneberry, would you briefly explain how 7 this document came into being? 8 A. I don't understand what you're... 9 Q. How did you go about getting this contract? 10 A. After I left or my position was eliminated at 11 The Courier-Journal, I formed the company, Business Security 12 Group, with the intention of soliciting security guard 13 business. Knowing the folks at Standard Gravure, many of whom 14 were from The Courier-Journal, I approached them about 15 providing security guard service for that company once the two 16 companies were split up. 17 Q. Had you ever operated a private security company 18 before doing this, sir? 19 A. No. 20 Q. In order to operate a private security business 21 like this, do you have to be licensed in any way, sir? 22 A. Only a general business license. 23 Q. Just get a business license like you might get 24 to operate a restaurant? 25 A. Yes, sir. 24 1 Q. Are there any special requirements to open up a 2 security business and provide private security through 3 regulations or licensure or anything like that, sir? 4 A. Not that I'm aware of. 5 Q. Now, you called on people that you knew at 6 Standard Gravure to try to get this contract, sir? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And was that Mr. Woolfolk? 9 A. That was actually facilitated through Dick 10 Neumann, who remained at The Courier-Journal and had become 11 familiar with the new management at Standard Gravure. 12 Q. He helped you get this contract? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Do you know whether this contract -- do you know 15 who decided on the part of Standard Gravure to employ your 16 company to provide security at that time? 17 A. Joe Woolfolk did. 18 Q. Anybody else, to your knowledge, sir? 19 A. No, sir. 20 Q. Mr. Throneberry, before this contract was 21 entered into, which is November 21, 1986, was Mr. Shea the 22 owner of the facility? 23 A. Yes, he was. 24 Q. Before this contract was signed, sir, did you do 25 a security analysis of Standard Gravure? 25 1 A. Not in the course of preparing for this piece of 2 business, no. 3 Q. What is a security analysis, sir? 4 A. It's an assessment of potential threats and 5 weaknesses. 6 Q. It's an assessment of potential threats? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And is it an assessment, did you say, also of 9 potential weaknesses? 10 A. Yes. The exposures and weaknesses and risks. 11 Q. Had you ever done a security analysis of a 12 private manufacturing facility? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Where had you done that kind of work previously, 15 sir? 16 A. Universal Uniform is the one that comes to mind. 17 Q. Did you do that alone, sir? 18 A. No, sir. 19 Q. Who did it with you? 20 A. I did that in conjunction with Steve Vogel. 21 Q. Is that the only one you had ever participated 22 in, sir? 23 A. No. I don't think so. 24 Q. You think there may have been others? 25 A. Yes. 26 1 Q. When you do an assessment of potential threats, 2 sir, does that include an analysis of threats that have been 3 made historically? 4 A. It could. 5 Q. And does it include the documentation of those 6 threats -- 7 A. It could. 8 Q. -- by interviewing employees to determine what 9 threats had been made in the past? 10 A. Not necessarily. 11 Q. How would you go about getting that sort of 12 information about historical threats as part of a security 13 analysis? 14 A. Discussions with members of management. 15 Q. Was that done before you entered into this 16 contract in November of 1986 at Standard Gravure? 17 A. Not as a part of the negotiation process or the 18 preliminary process. 19 Q. Mr. Throneberry, when this contract was signed, 20 who was to decide what security was to be in place at Standard 21 Gravure and how it was to be manned? 22 A. At the time this contract was signed, Standard 23 Gravure would have decided that. 24 Q. And who at Standard Gravure would decide how 25 many guards, where they're to be, what mechanical security 27 1 equipment should be there? Who would have decided that? 2 A. I assume Joe Woolfolk did. I don't know. 3 Q. Did he have any training in security or any 4 experience in security, to your knowledge, sir? 5 A. Not to my knowledge. 6 Q. During the period of time that Business Security 7 Group operated as the guard service at Standard Gravure, was 8 there ever a security analysis done in writing, sir? 9 A. No, I don't believe so. 10 Q. Was there ever a written assessment of potential 11 threats? 12 A. I don't believe so. 13 Q. Was there ever a written assessment of 14 historical threats or threats that had been made in the past? 15 A. I don't think so. 16 Q. Was there ever an assessment in writing of the 17 weaknesses, exposures and risks at Standard Gravure? 18 A. Not during that time, no. 19 Q. Now, sir, this contract was scheduled to run, if 20 I read this correctly, until December 31st, 1987; correct, 21 sir? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And at the time the contract was signed, you 24 were not an employee of Standard Gravure; am I right, sir? 25 A. Yes. 28 1 Q. When did you become an employee of Standard? 2 A. I believe that was August of '88. 3 Q. Let me show you a document, sir, and see if it 4 refreshes your memory at all. Do you recognize this document, 5 sir? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Would you tell us what it is? 8 A. It's the sale of the security contracts between 9 Standard Gravure and Business Security Group to Hall Security. 10 MR. SMITH: May we approach, Your Honor? 11 JUDGE POTTER: Uh-huh. 12 (BENCH DISCUSSION) 13 MR. SMITH: Our objection is that this is 14 hearsay to any of the plaintiffs in this case. It's not an 15 agreement signed or entered into by any of the parties to this 16 case, nor even to Standard Gravure. It also is immaterial and 17 irrelevant to any issue the jury is going to decide. 18 JUDGE POTTER: It's already in evidence. What's 19 the relevance, Mr. Stopher? 20 MR. STOPHER: It's already in, but the relevance 21 is that he had a conflict of interest because he had a 22 financial interest in the security guard service that was 23 supplying the security at Standard Gravure. The relevance is 24 that as a result of that, it influenced his judgment to give 25 the contract to the company that got it that was not qualified 29 1 pursuant to the opinions of the Plaintiffs' own expert. 2 JUDGE POTTER: I'm going to overrule the 3 objection. 4 MR. SMITH: I beg your pardon? 5 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Stopher, it's already in 6 evidence, but I'm going to overrule the objection to using it 7 for this purpose. I think you can show why this guy may not 8 have been as diligent as supervisor of security, or whatever 9 he is, as he would have been if he hadn't had a tie with these 10 people. 11 (BENCH DISCUSSION CONCLUDED) 12 Q. Mr. Throneberry, what is the date of this 13 document, sir? 14 A. September 11th, 1987. 15 Q. And is it signed by you, sir? 16 A. Yes, it is. 17 Q. Would you tell us, first of all, sir, briefly 18 what this document is? 19 A. Essentially, it's a sale of the assets of 20 Business Security Group to Hall Security, the assets being the 21 contracts. 22 MR. STOPHER: Your Honor, we would request -- 23 this has already been entered in the record as Defendant's 24 Exhibit 155, and we would request that it be published. 25 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. If you'd hand it to my 30 1 Court Reporter, she'll pass it out. My sheriff is on a 2 mission. 3 COURT REPORTER: (Hands document to jurors). 4 Q. Mr. Throneberry, in looking at this document, 5 it's between Grady and Sheila Throneberry and Business 6 Security Group and Hall Security Company; correct, sir? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. In the first paragraph under the term 9 Consideration it states, "In addition to the mutual promises 10 contained herein, Assignee agrees to pay Assignor 12 percent 11 of the gross revenue collected by Assignee each month 12 beginning October 1, 1987, and monthly thereafter." Correct, 13 sir? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. If I understand this document, if we put in 16 names, Hall Security Company was to pay you 12 percent -- you 17 and your wife 12 percent of their gross revenue every month; 18 am I right? 19 A. For a period of time, yes. 20 Q. Yes, sir. It went on until -- sixteen monthly 21 payments, about a year and four months; right, sir? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. At the time that you were getting these 24 payments -- or did you get these payments, sir? 25 A. Yes. 31 1 Q. Roughly how much money totally did you get from 2 Hall Security? 3 A. I think it was around twenty-five thousand. 4 Q. Twenty-five thousand dollars? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. During the period of time, sir, that you got 7 that $25,000, what was your relationship to Standard Gravure? 8 A. I was the safety and security manager at 9 Standard Gravure. 10 Q. What was your relationship to Hall Security 11 Company? 12 A. Other than having sold my business to them, I 13 had none. 14 Q. Did you have the authority to award the security 15 contract at Standard Gravure? 16 A. Not solely, no. 17 Q. Who had the authority to do it with you? 18 A. Someone in higher management would have. 19 Q. Such as who, sir? 20 A. I suppose Don McCall or Joe Woolfolk during the 21 time that he was there. 22 Q. Let me next show you another document, sir. 23 This one is just one page, sir. And let me ask you if you 24 recognize this document, sir. 25 A. Yes, I do. 32 1 Q. Would you briefly tell us what it is, sir. 2 A. This is the agreement between Standard Gravure 3 and Hall Security to allow Hall Security to assume my 4 contracts. 5 MR. STOPHER: Your Honor, this has previously 6 been entered as Defendant's Exhibit 154. We would ask that it 7 be distributed again. 8 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Madame Sheriff. 9 SHERIFF CECIL: (Hands document to jurors). 10 Q. The one-page document, sir, marked as 11 Defendant's Exhibit 154 is dated September 29, 1987; correct? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And it's signed at the bottom, Standard Gravure 14 Corporation, by Paula Warman, dated September 29, 1987? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And by Hall Security Services by Carolyn Tamas, 17 September 27, 1987? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. How did this document come into being, sir? 20 A. I'm not sure I understand. 21 Q. Well, sir, going back to the first document that 22 you and I talked about, your company, Business Security Group, 23 had a contract that ran until December 31st to supply security 24 at Standard Gravure; correct? 25 A. Yes. 33 1 Q. And then in September of 1987, Hall Security 2 signs a contract to provide security at Standard Gravure; 3 correct? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Why? 6 A. So that they could assume -- so that Hall 7 Security could assume with Standard's agreement those 8 contracts. 9 Q. Did you select Hall Security? 10 A. No, I didn't select Hall Security. 11 Q. Did you recommend Hall Security? 12 A. Yeah, I suppose so. 13 Q. Was there competitive bidding? 14 A. No, there was not. 15 Q. At the time that this new contract is signed 16 with Hall Security on September 29, 1987, did you tell Ms. 17 Warman or anybody else in management that you were going to be 18 getting $25,000 from Hall Security? 19 MR. SMITH: We'd object to that. That would 20 assume that this was the only contract that was assigned. 21 There's no evidence that Hall Security paid $25,000 as a 22 result of this contract with Standard Gravure to Mr. 23 Throneberry. 24 JUDGE POTTER: Objection is overruled. 25 Q. Did you tell them, sir? 34 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Who did you tell? 3 A. I'm not sure. 4 Q. Can you name anybody that you told about the 5 money that you were getting from Hall Security? 6 A. Not specifically, no. 7 Q. Mr. Throneberry, were you familiar with the 8 personnel policies at Standard Gravure? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Were you familiar with the conflict-of-interest 11 rule? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Was your receipt of that $25,000 from the guard 14 service company a conflict of interest, sir? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Did you get approval to go ahead and to get 17 these moneys paid to you by the management at Standard Gravure 18 during the time that the guard service was being supplied? 19 A. Standard Gravure knew that I was selling those 20 contracts and that I was going to benefit from that, yes. 21 Q. Who approved of that, sir? 22 A. I don't remember specifically. I believe it was 23 Joe Woolfolk. 24 Q. Now, sir, did you ever get any approval in 25 writing that this was not a conflict of interest or a payment 35 1 that was inappropriate under the personnel rules? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Now, sir, look at this contract for just a 4 moment. In the first two paragraphs, sir, it says, Number 5 One, "Hall agrees to furnish initial guard services at the 6 premises of Standard, which shall consist of keeping on duty 7 that number of capable uniformed guards as specified by 8 Standard who shall be employees of Hall but satisfactory to 9 Standard and shall be uniformed, equipped and paid by Hall." 10 Did I read it correctly, sir? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Under that provision of the contract, sir, who 13 was to decide how many guards there were to be? 14 A. Standard. 15 Q. Who was to decide where those guards would be 16 placed? 17 A. Standard. 18 Q. Who was to decide what sort of security 19 equipment there should be on the premises of Standard Gravure? 20 A. Standard. 21 Q. Now take a look at Paragraph Number Two. "The 22 guards furnished by Hall shall protect the property of 23 Standard against any act of robbery, burglary, destruction, 24 arson, vandalism or trespass and perform other duties as 25 assigned by Standard and Hall." Did I read that correctly, 36 1 sir? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. During the course of the contract, sir, who was 4 to decide what was necessary to protect Standard? 5 A. Standard. 6 Q. It was never Hall? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Did Hall from time to time recommend security 9 improvements both in personnel and equipment? 10 A. They may have. 11 Q. Before Hall began work in September of 1987, 12 sir, did Hall Security perform a security analysis? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Did they do an assessment of potential threats? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Did they do an assessment of weaknesses, 17 exposures and risks in the security? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Now, sir, was Hall Security in this relationship 20 on September 14, 1989? 21 A. I'm sorry? 22 Q. Let me restate the question; it perhaps was not 23 clear. As of September 14, 1989, who was providing the guard 24 service? 25 A. Hall Security. 37 1 Q. And were you still the manager of safety and 2 security? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And was this contract still in effect between 5 Standard Gravure and Hall Security? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Now, sir, let me direct your attention to the 8 premises. Mr. Throneberry, could I ask you to step down here, 9 sir, and look at this board, which is a schematic drawing of 10 Standard Gravure, and let me see if I can get you oriented, 11 first of all, sir. This is Sixth Street. This represents the 12 entrance on Sixth Street, this is Armory Place, and down here 13 is Broadway, sir, that direction is Chestnut. Fair enough, 14 sir? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Are you generally oriented? 17 A. Yes. 18 SHERIFF CECIL: Excuse me, Mr. Stopher. The 19 jurors can't see it down here. 20 Q. All right. Let me see if I can put it on this 21 easel, sir. That's better. All right. Let me start over 22 again, sir. And move these back out of the way, here. 23 Is that better? Glare? Let me pull this off. 24 Let me try turning it. Is that any better? No? All right. 25 Let me try moving it closer. Is that visible? I'm getting my 38 1 exercise here. 2 Now, let me start over again, sir. This is 3 Sixth Street, down this way is Broadway, that way is Chestnut 4 and this is Armory Place, sir. Okay. Are you oriented? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Okay. Now, sir, depicted here where the 7 automobile is shown is the Sixth Street entrance to the 8 facility; correct? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Now, sir, during the period of time that Hall 11 Security was operating the facility, the security at the 12 facility, was there ever a guard at the Sixth Street entrance? 13 A. No. 14 Q. During the period of time including 15 September 14, 1989, how many guards were on duty, particularly 16 in the early morning between eight and nine o'clock? 17 A. Two. 18 Q. Where were they stationed, sir? 19 A. In this area at the Armory Street guard post. 20 Q. Both of them were in the Armory Street guard 21 post? 22 A. Generally, yes. 23 Q. And where is the Armory Street guard post 24 located, sir? 25 A. It would be in this area. 39 1 Q. And from that area, sir, can the guards see the 2 entrance on Sixth Street? 3 A. No. 4 Q. In the area of the Armory Place -- and it's 5 marked there Delivery Area -- there was a guard post; am I 6 correct about that? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. What was the guard post? 9 A. What was it? 10 Q. Yes, sir. 11 A. Just a small shack with a phone and some alarm 12 panels and a place for their papers and reports. 13 Q. Was there in that guard shack a telephone that 14 could make outside calls? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Could it make inside calls? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. You said that there were alarms in that guard 19 post. What alarms were in there? 20 A. The fire alarm panels. 21 Q. And what are the fire alarm panels? 22 A. They were to alert the guards of fires within 23 the building. 24 Q. Would they tell the guards where the fire was? 25 A. Generally, yes. 40 1 Q. What else was in that guard shack? 2 A. Key box, a terminal for a paging system. 3 Q. A terminal for a paging system? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. What was that like, sir? 6 A. A public address system. 7 Q. Could it be used to make an announcement in the 8 facility? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Could it be used to evacuate? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. If a fire alarm went off, sir, how would that 13 public address system be used? 14 A. The guards would simply grab the microphone and 15 announce that there was a fire or some other situation, such 16 as bad weather, and evacuate the building or alert people to 17 whatever the situation was. 18 Q. Could the guards, for example, if the fire alarm 19 went off and indicated a fire in Area Two pressroom, could 20 they make an announcement so that the people in the Area One 21 pressroom would not evacuate by going in that direction? 22 A. They could, yes. 23 Q. And was that what that P.A. system was used for, 24 among other things, sir? 25 A. Among other things, yes. 41 1 Q. Now, Mr. Throneberry, in that guard shack, was 2 there any other equipment over there? 3 A. WHAS had some closed-circuit television 4 monitors. 5 Q. I'd rather not mix this up with WHAS; let's just 6 talk about Standard Gravure equipment. 7 A. Not that I'm aware of. 8 Q. No TV monitors in there at all? 9 A. Not that I remember. 10 Q. Mr. Throneberry, had there been a video camera 11 with a TV monitor at the Sixth Street entrance? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. When you started working there in 1986 with 14 Business Security Group, was there a video camera at that 15 entrance? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. What happened to it? 18 A. It was removed during my time at Standard as an 19 employee. 20 Q. Why was it removed? 21 A. Well, it didn't work very well and it had been 22 vandalized numerous times and it didn't serve its originally 23 intended purpose, so we chose to remove it. 24 Q. Who made the decision to remove that video 25 camera? 42 1 A. That was my recommendation. 2 Q. Who decided -- who made the decision? 3 A. I'm not sure. 4 Q. Somebody above you? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. The persons above you there were only Paula 7 Warman, Don McCall and Mike Shea; correct, sir? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Do you recall when that video camera was 10 removed? 11 A. Not exactly. 12 Q. Where was the monitor or the screen that was 13 connected up to that video camera? 14 A. There was one in The Courier-Journal guard shack 15 and there had been one at the reception desk in Standard 16 Gravure. 17 Q. Now, where is The Courier-Journal guard shack, 18 sir? 19 A. Generally at the corner of Armory and Broadway. 20 Q. In other words, basically up this way and 21 slightly off the map? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Was there ever a monitor, sir, for the video 24 camera at this entrance over to the Standard Gravure guard 25 shack? 43 1 A. Not that I recall. 2 Q. Now, sir, during business hours was the entrance 3 on Sixth Street locked or unlocked? 4 A. Unlocked. 5 Q. When would it be unlocked, sir? 6 A. Approximately 7:30 in the morning. 7 Q. And when would it be locked back again, sir? 8 A. At the close of business, generally around 9 five-thirty or six in the evening. 10 Q. On September 14th, 1989, was that the security 11 situation at this entrance at 8:30 in the morning, sir? 12 A. I believe so. 13 Q. No guard? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. No video camera? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. The door was open, unlocked? 18 MR. SMITH: Objection, leading, Your Honor. 19 JUDGE POTTER: Sustained. 20 Q. Was the door locked or unlocked, sir? 21 A. I can only assume that it was unlocked. 22 Q. Mr. Throneberry, as of September 14, 1989, was 23 the P.A. system on which evacuation announcements could be 24 made, was it operating? 25 A. To my knowledge, it was. 44 1 Q. Has it ever been reported to you that the guard 2 in that shack remembers that it had been ripped out? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Did you ever have any information, sir, that on 5 September 14, 1989, any evacuation announcement was ever made? 6 A. I'm sorry? 7 Q. Was any evacuation announcement made on 8 September 14, 1989? 9 A. I don't know. 10 Q. Had there been prior to the date of this 11 incident on September 14, 1989, a security analysis by anybody 12 in writing of Standard Gravure, the exposures, the risks, and 13 the threats? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Who did it, sir? 16 A. Steve Vogel and Dick Neumann and I probably 17 would have been the three to do that. 18 Q. Where is it? 19 A. I have no idea. 20 Q. Did you ever give it to anybody? 21 A. I'm not sure what happened to it. 22 Q. With regard to the Sixth Street entrance, did 23 that security analysis recommend electromagnetic locks that 24 would allow entry only to permitted people? 25 MR. SMITH: Objection, leading, Your Honor. 45 1 JUDGE POTTER: Sustained. 2 Q. What recommendations did you make in the 3 security analysis about the Sixth Street entrance? 4 A. I don't recall. 5 Q. Did you make any? 6 A. I'm sure we did. 7 Q. But you don't know what they were? 8 A. No, sir. I don't remember what they were in. 9 Q. Were they ever implemented? 10 A. With regard to that entrance, I don't know. 11 Q. Well, if I understand correctly, sir, there was 12 absolutely no security at that entrance. 13 MR. SMITH: Objection, leading, Your Honor. 14 JUDGE POTTER: Sustained. 15 Q. Was there any security at that entrance? 16 A. The only security measure that I recall was that 17 the inside door or the door from that entrance into the 18 stairwell was locked. 19 Q. The door here to the stairwell was locked? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Was there any security at all with regard to 22 someone coming in these two doors? 23 A. Not during business hours. 24 Q. What about getting on the elevator? 25 A. Not during business hours. 46 1 Q. Do you recall any recommendation to anybody to 2 make a change in that regard, sir? 3 A. Prior to September 14th? 4 Q. (Nods head affirmatively). 5 A. No. 6 Q. Prior to September 14th, 1989, sir, was there a 7 security analysis made of the history of threats at Standard 8 Gravure? 9 A. I don't recall anything specific about that. 10 Q. Mr. Throneberry, with regard to the security at 11 the Sixth Street entrance, the guard service, Hall Security 12 guards, would fill out incident reports? 13 MR. SMITH: Objection, leading, Your Honor. 14 JUDGE POTTER: Sustained. 15 Q. Did the guards fill out incident reports, sir? 16 A. Yes, they did. 17 Q. Who would get copies of those incident reports? 18 A. At Standard, I did. 19 Q. Did you ever receive any reports before 20 September 14, 1989, about security at the Sixth Street 21 entrance? 22 A. I don't recall specifically that I did, no. 23 Q. Do you have any recollection of receiving any 24 written reports from Mr. Abrams? 25 A. Yes. 47 1 Q. Did you get any from him regarding this Sixth 2 Street entrance? 3 A. I don't recall any specific incident reports 4 about that entrance. 5 Q. Do you have any recollection of his discussing 6 any of that with you, sir? 7 A. No, I don't. 8 Q. Mr. Throneberry, with regard to the security 9 guard post over here, did the guards sometimes leave that 10 post? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Were there always supposed to be two guards at 13 that shack? 14 A. No. 15 Q. When were there two and when was there something 16 different than that? 17 A. There would be one there almost all the time. 18 The second one generally was making rounds or something else. 19 Q. Who were the two guards on duty on September 14, 20 1989? 21 A. I'm not sure who the second one was. James 22 Abrams was the first. 23 Q. Was there a second one on duty, sir? 24 A. There probably was a shift change, which was 25 about seven in the morning. I believe the situation was that 48 1 there was one guard during business hours, two during the rest 2 of the time and on weekends. 3 Q. Well, I'm confused, sir. On September 14, 1989, 4 between eight and nine o'clock A.M., how many guards were 5 supposed to be on duty over there at that guard post? 6 A. I think just one. 7 Q. And is that in fact the situation, as you recall 8 it, sir? 9 A. Jim Abrams is the only one I recall, so that 10 probably is correct. 11 Q. When the guard would leave the guard shack -- or 12 let me ask you this, sir, better stated. If there was only 13 one guard on duty, who would make the rounds? 14 A. During business hours we made no rounds. 15 Q. During business hours the guard stayed in the 16 guard shack? 17 MR. SMITH: Objection, leading, Your Honor. 18 JUDGE POTTER: Sustained. 19 Q. During business hours where did the guard stay? 20 A. Generally in the guard shack. 21 Q. Mr. Throneberry, just a couple of other 22 questions about this area. Was there a fence or a gate in the 23 delivery area? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. What sort of a gate was located there, sir? 49 1 A. It was a chain-link gate about six feet high, 2 motorized. 3 Q. How could it be operated? 4 A. From the guard shack. 5 Q. In other words, the controls were in the guard 6 shack? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. Mr. Throneberry, in order to get into this 9 building, can you show me on this drawing where you could get 10 in? 11 A. Yes. The building could be entered from the 12 loading dock in any number of areas. 13 Q. In other words, in this area along here? 14 A. Yes. Yes. The Sixth Street entrance. 15 Q. This entrance? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. There were underground tunnels between the 18 Standard Gravure and The Courier-Journal building, so it could 19 be entered that way or through the overhead walkway on the 20 third floor of both buildings or between the third floor of 21 both buildings and there were fire exits -- 22 Q. Well, let me withdraw getting out; let's talk 23 about getting in. All right? Fire exits are doors you can 24 get out but they're locked so you can't get in; right? 25 A. Yes. 50 1 Q. Okay. Now, if I understand correctly, there are 2 some underground tunnels coming from The Courier-Journal 3 building? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And to get into those you've got to get into The 6 Courier-Journal building; am I right? 7 MR. SMITH: Objection, leading again, Your 8 Honor. 9 Q. How do you get into the tunnels? 10 A. Through The Courier-Journal building. 11 Q. There are some overhead passes? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. How can you get into those? 14 A. Through The Courier-Journal building. 15 Q. Are there any other street entrances to Standard 16 Gravure from the outside other than the loading dock and the 17 Sixth Street entrance? 18 A. No. 19 Q. The loading dock area was guarded? 20 MR. SMITH: Objection, leading, Your Honor. 21 Request Counsel be instructed to quit leading the Witness. 22 JUDGE POTTER: A lot of these things are 23 preliminary, Mr. Smith, so it's really not that significant. 24 But, Mr. Stopher, if you'd try not to lead. 25 Q. Was the loading dock entrance guarded? 51 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Was the Sixth Street entrance guarded? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Let me ask you to resume your seat, please, sir. 5 Mr. Throneberry, with regard to incident 6 reports, who prepared those, sir? 7 A. The guards would have. 8 Q. And who would get copies of them? 9 A. At Standard, I would have gotten the copies. 10 Q. Anyone else, sir? 11 A. Not unless I forwarded a copy to someone else. 12 Q. If you wanted to make changes in the security or 13 the level of security at Standard Gravure, what would you do, 14 sir? 15 A. Generally I would just make the change. 16 Q. Did you have the authority to add security 17 equipment? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Who had that authority? 20 A. Well, I would make recommendations and I suppose 21 Don McCall or Paula Warman would have made the approvals on 22 those. 23 Q. Okay. Let me show you a document, sir, that 24 I've marked as Defendant's Exhibit 158. Can you identify this 25 for us, please, sir? 52 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. What is it? 3 A. It's a proposal for a major expenditure, capital 4 expenditure for a building-wide paging system with an 5 interconnection to the phone system. 6 Q. And is it signed in the lower left-hand corner 7 by you? 8 A. Well, it's not signed, but I prepared it, yes. 9 Q. All right, sir. 10 Your Honor, we would move the admission of 11 Defendant's Exhibit 158 and ask that it be published. 12 JUDGE POTTER: I'm just going by my records, but 13 I indicate it's already in. 14 MR. SMITH: Your Honor, I think those records 15 are -- it's just a listing of documents that have been 16 offered. I don't know that we've supplied you ones that have 17 actually been entered. This one has been entered, but I think 18 there may be some confusion, but we can clear that up. 19 JUDGE POTTER: All right. Madame Sheriff, if 20 you will show the copy to the jury and then pick them up at 21 the end. 22 SHERIFF CECIL: (Hands document to jurors). 23 Q. What is the date of this document, sir? 24 A. June 9th, 1989. 25 Q. This would be about three months prior to the 53 1 shootings, sir? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Under the caption, Description, it says, 4 "Building-wide paging system interconnect with proprietary 5 phone system." Did I read that correctly, sir? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Under Discussion, it says, "For safety purposes, 8 evacuation of building, fire, explosion, severe weather, et 9 cetera." Right? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And down at the bottom it says, "Initiation 12 requested by G. Throneberry, reviewed by Jack Uhl, Vernon 13 Rothenburger. Proposal disposition," and then it looks like 14 it's signed by Mike Shea and dated June 28, 1989; correct, 15 sir? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. What was this, sir? 18 A. A proposal for a building-wide evacuation 19 system. 20 Q. And what was its purpose? 21 A. The purpose of it was to separate our company's 22 public address system from The Courier Journal's. 23 Q. And what was this system going to do? 24 A. It was going to allow paging or public address 25 throughout the building or in designated areas, selectively 54 1 designated areas. 2 Q. Including the pressroom? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. How could someone make an announcement if this 5 system had been installed? 6 A. If it had been installed as proposed, by -- with 7 their desk telephone set. 8 Q. In other words, anybody that had a telephone 9 could make an announcement? 10 A. Almost anybody. 11 Q. Was this your recommendation, sir? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Was it approved by Mike Shea? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Was it installed prior to September 14, 1989? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Why not? 18 A. I don't know. 19 Q. At the back of the document, sir, there are some 20 drawings of floor plans. I see some lines drawn and notations 21 made. Do you see those documents, sir? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. What does that relate to? 24 A. That's a legend indicating where speakers and 25 evacuation horns would be placed throughout the building. 55 1 Q. The system was to include horns, as well as 2 speakers? 3 A. I believe so, yes. 4 Q. All right, sir. Mr. Throneberry, prior to 5 September 14, 1989, as the manager of security, did you ever 6 undertake any undercover work in the plant, sir? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Was there ever any undercover work done in the 9 plant? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. How did that come about? 12 MR. SMITH: Could we approach, Your Honor? 13 JUDGE POTTER: Uh-huh. 14 (BENCH DISCUSSION) 15 JUDGE POTTER: Just for background, Mr. Stopher, 16 will you tell me where you're going? 17 MR. STOPHER: Sure. He did a lot of the 18 investigatory work of various problems at the plant, including 19 loan-sharking muscle work, intimidation by collecting debts on 20 loan-sharking, drugs, alcohol and the like. Not only did he 21 do that work or have it done, he has it very carefully 22 documented and he's got all his files on it. He even got so 23 minute as to get into really picky matters, whereas the files 24 on Joseph Wesbecker are missing. 25 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Smith. 56 1 MR. SMITH: That's immaterial and irrelevant to 2 any issue. There's no relevance whatsoever of what 3 investigation he might have been doing as to loan-sharking or 4 anything of that nature. It's absolutely immaterial. 5 MR. STOPHER: It's material in the sense, Your 6 Honor, that he's going to say here eventually that he did know 7 about Joe Wesbecker's threats and that he made no effort to 8 investigate or to contact, whereas in other instances he did 9 investigate people and even barred them from coming onto the 10 premises. 11 JUDGE POTTER: He's going to say what? 12 MR. STOPHER: That he even barred other people 13 from coming onto the premises. 14 JUDGE POTTER: He's going to say what about 15 Joseph Wesbecker? 16 MR. STOPHER: That he knew about his threats and 17 that his files are missing and that he did nothing with regard 18 to him. 19 MR. SMITH: That's the only thing that would be 20 relevant. 21 MR. STOPHER: He operated differently at 22 different times with regard to things that were pretty 23 inconsequential, such as theft. He investigated those 24 minutely, kept his records, Standard Gravure has his records, 25 but on threats to blow up the plant by Joseph Wesbecker he 57 1 didn't do anything. 2 JUDGE POTTER: My concern is not -- I mean, what 3 are we talking about, the threats and things -- I mean, the 4 theft and things? 5 MR. STOPHER: It's a huge investigation. I just 6 want to get a very small phase of it. It will only take five 7 minutes. 8 JUDGE POTTER: What is that small phase? 9 MR. STOPHER: That he planted marked bills to 10 see if people would steal and that he kept the bills and 11 photocopied and produced them. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Are any of the Plaintiffs in any 13 way implicated? 14 MR. STOPHER: No. No. Definitely not. 15 MR. SMITH: Then how could it have any relevance 16 whatsoever? 17 JUDGE POTTER: I'm going to let him put on one 18 example of how he maintained records of these other things. 19 MR. SMITH: And then he's going to say and there 20 were other instances where you did that same thing. 21 JUDGE POTTER: Right. 22 MR. SMITH: There's no way. I mean, you let in 23 one piece of immaterial evidence, there's no way this jury is 24 going to know what else is out there, and he's going to leave 25 that inference. It's not relevant. 58 1 JUDGE POTTER: I think it is relevant to show 2 that perhaps the jury should attach some significance to the 3 missing Wesbecker files. 4 MR. SMITH: There's no Plaintiffs correlation in 5 this case. 6 JUDGE POTTER: Well, overruled. 7 (BENCH DISCUSSION CONCLUDED) 8 Q. For example, Mr. Throneberry, was there ever any 9 investigation of theft of cash at Standard Gravure? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Let me show you a document, sir, that's been 12 marked as Defendant's Exhibit 354. 13 MR. SMITH: Could we approach, Your Honor? 14 (BENCH DISCUSSION) 15 MR. SMITH: This proves the immateriality of any 16 investigation of this nature. I mean, I didn't know the Court 17 was going to allow any documents to be entered in connection 18 with the investigation. 19 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. As I understand it, this 20 is just an example of one file and his memo to the file of 21 what he did. Actually, the first two pages are -- 22 MR. STOPHER: They're duplicates, sir. That's 23 just the way it was produced to me. 24 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Just his way of the way he 25 handled some little, petty things with money. It doesn't 59 1 implicate your clients, as I understand it, and, you know, any 2 kind of -- Mr. Stopher, you can talk about other instances, 3 but I don't want anything about loan-sharking or anything. 4 "Did you do other things when you had problems? As an 5 example, is this typical of what you did when you had a 6 problem." Objection is overruled. 7 (BENCH DISCUSSION CONCLUDED) 8 Q. Have you had a chance to look at that document, 9 sir? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Briefly, can you tell us what this is? 12 A. Yes. It's my file notes about some thefts that 13 occurred in the administrative office areas of Standard 14 Gravure and our actions subsequent to that. 15 Q. And what was done about it at Standard Gravure? 16 A. Yes. 17 MR. STOPHER: Your Honor, we move the admission 18 of Defendant's Exhibit 354 and ask that it be published. 19 MR. SMITH: Objection is noted, Your Honor. 20 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Be admitted. 21 SHERIFF CECIL: (Hands document to jurors). 22 Q. Are these documents from your file? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And is this the kind of documentation that you 25 would keep on an investigation of a matter at Standard 60 1 Gravure? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. I notice at the back of this document, sir, 4 there are photocopies of a number of one-dollar bills. Do you 5 see those? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. What are those? 8 A. Those are photocopies of bills that were placed 9 as bait and marked with dye. 10 Q. And you kept the copies of the bills themselves 11 as part of the investigation file at Standard Gravure? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. In 1992, sir, did you produce this file and many 14 other files pursuant to my subpoena and request at deposition? 15 A. I don't believe I did, no. 16 Q. They were produced by Standard Gravure? 17 A. I don't know who produced them. 18 Q. All right, sir. Mr. Throneberry, during the 19 course of the time that you were manager of safety and 20 security, did you ever bar anybody from the premises? 21 A. I don't recall that we did. 22 Q. Do you recall barring one employee for making 23 subtle threats about getting even? 24 A. I'm not sure if we barred him or if we simply 25 wanted him escorted when he was on the premises. 61 1 Q. Did you give the guards instructions about how 2 to deal with that situation? 3 A. I believe so. 4 Q. Mr. Throneberry, while you were manager of 5 safety and security at Standard Gravure, were threats to be 6 reported? 7 A. To me? 8 Q. Yes, sir. 9 A. I think they should have been, yes. 10 Q. Were there any threats that were not to be 11 reported to you? 12 A. No. 13 Q. How were the employees informed that they should 14 communicate threats? 15 A. I'm not sure how they were informed. 16 Q. Did you tell them, sir? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Do you know of anyone that did? 19 A. No. I can't say that I do. 20 Q. Was there ever any procedure established for 21 reporting threats to you? 22 A. I don't believe there was a formal procedure. 23 Q. Let me show you, sir, some excerpts from a 24 personnel manual. I will represent to you, sir, that this is 25 not the whole manual, it's quite thick, about an inch thick. 62 1 I have it here if you need to see it. Do you recognize this 2 document, sir? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And would you tell us briefly what it is? 5 A. It's the personnel policy manual for The 6 Courier-Journal, Standard Gravure and other companies. 7 MR. STOPHER: Your Honor, we move the admission 8 of Defendant's Exhibit 160 and ask that it be published. 9 JUDGE POTTER: Be admitted. 10 SHERIFF CECIL: (Hands document to jurors). 11 Q. Who got this document, sir? 12 A. Everyone in management, including foremen, would 13 have had a copy of this or should have had a copy of this. 14 Q. What about pressmen? 15 A. I'm not sure if it was given to individual 16 employees or not. 17 Q. Take a look at the page, sir, that is entitled 18 Bomb Threats. It says, "Policy. It is the policy of the 19 Bingham companies to protect their employees and property 20 against bomb threats and to utilize established procedures in 21 the event a bomb threat is received." Right, sir? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Then there is language about procedure, and it 24 says under Number Three, the following procedures -- "The 25 following are procedures to be followed by the security 63 1 department when notified of a bomb threat: 2 A) notify the police department. 3 B) notify company executives in this order," and 4 then it gives a list of names; correct, sir? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Was this personnel policy still in effect after 7 Mr. Shea bought the company? 8 A. I believe it was. 9 Q. Was this still the procedure on how to report 10 bomb threats? 11 A. Yes. I believe it was. 12 Q. Up to and including September 14, 1989? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Were there any bomb threats that were to be 15 disregarded or not reported? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Was this information ever posted on bulletin 18 boards to alert employees that this was the procedure? 19 A. Not that I recall, but I don't know for sure. 20 Q. Now, take a look back, sir, at the page just in 21 front of that entitled Deadly Weapons. Do you see that? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And it says, "It is the policy of the Bingham 24 companies to create a safe and secure work environment for all 25 its employees. Firearms and other deadly weapons of any type, 64 1 such as switchblade knives, shall not be brought onto company 2 property at any time. This includes carrying firearms and 3 other deadly weapons, concealed or exposed on the person." 4 Correct? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Under Procedure, it says Number Three, 7 "Violation of this rule will constitute justifiable cause for 8 disciplinary action up to and including discharge and will be 9 considered serious misconduct pursuant to Section 705.1." 10 Correct, sir? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Was this the policy with regard to guns when 13 Mike Shea owned the property? 14 A. As far as I know, yes. 15 Q. Was this rule enforced? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Was anybody ever disciplined or discharged for 18 carrying a gun onto the premises? 19 A. Not that I know of. 20 Q. Do you recognize this document? 21 A. I'm sorry? 22 Q. Do you recognize this document? I'm sorry. I 23 had my back turned to you. 24 A. Yes, I do. 25 Q. And is this a gun report that came to your 65 1 attention, sir? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And is this your file or a copy of your file 4 regarding that matter? 5 A. Yes. 6 MR. STOPHER: Your Honor, this -- Defendant's 7 Exhibit 150 has already been entered, but I would request that 8 it be published again. 9 JUDGE POTTER: You want to go ahead? 10 SHERIFF CECIL: (Hands document to jurors). 11 Q. What are the first two pages of this document? 12 A. The copies of the front and back of a -- I think 13 it was a postcard. 14 Q. Addressed to you at Standard Gravure? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And what's the third page? 17 A. The third page are my handwritten file notes. 18 Q. Briefly stated, sir, what happened? 19 A. I received this anonymous postcard in the mail 20 that implied that Charles Ganote brings guns to work. 21 Q. What did you do? 22 A. Well, I brought this to the attention of Don 23 McCall and I believe Paula Warman, although I'm not sure. 24 Asked them what they thought that I should do about that, and 25 I believe Don suggested that I meet with Charles Ganote about 66 1 it. 2 Q. And did you meet with Mr. Ganote? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. What was the result of that meeting? 5 A. He admitted that he had from time to time 6 brought guns on the property, and I cautioned him that he 7 wasn't to do that anymore, and he agreed not to do that. 8 Q. And that was the end of the matter? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Mr. Throneberry, was it ever reported to you 11 that Joseph Wesbecker had threatened violence against 12 individuals at Standard Gravure? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Who first reported it to you? 15 A. Don Cox. 16 Q. How did he report it to you? 17 A. I believe that he first brought it to the 18 attention of Don McCall, who made me aware of it, and then I 19 contacted Don Cox about the report. 20 Q. Who first reported it to you, McCall or Cox? 21 A. I believe Don McCall passed the word on to me 22 after Don Cox had brought it to his attention. 23 Q. What did McCall tell you, first? 24 A. To meet with Don Cox about it. 25 Q. What did he tell you to meet with him about? 67 1 A. Just to get the details and to decide how to 2 handle it. 3 Q. To get the details of what? 4 A. Of the threat. 5 Q. Did he tell you what the threat was? 6 A. I don't recall if he did. 7 Q. Did Mr. McCall tell you how he knew about it? 8 A. Well, that Don Cox had brought it to his 9 attention; is that what you're asking? 10 Q. When was this, sir? 11 A. I don't recall. 12 Q. It was before September 14, 1989, obviously? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Were you the manager of safety and security? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. So it was sometime after 1987; correct? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Tell me about what you did, then, with regard to 19 Mr. Cox after Mr. McCall spoke to you. 20 A. Don Cox and I met in my office. He relayed to 21 me what he knew of it, which I believe it was a threat against 22 him personally. 23 Q. What was the threat? 24 A. It was a threat of physical harm. 25 Q. Was it a threat of death? 68 1 A. I don't recall specifically whether it was. 2 Q. Who had made the threat? 3 A. Joe Wesbecker. 4 Q. What was the threat -- was the threat specific 5 as to the means of physical harm? 6 A. I don't recall that it was. 7 Q. What else did Mr. Cox tell you about the threat? 8 A. That he wasn't too concerned about it. 9 Q. What else did he tell you? 10 A. I don't recall that he had anything else to say 11 about it. 12 Q. What did you do next? 13 A. I offered to provide Don Cox and his family with 14 some personalized security at their residence. 15 Q. What sort of security? 16 A. Off-duty police officers. 17 Q. What was his response to that? 18 A. He declined the offer. 19 Q. Did he tell you why? 20 A. I don't recall that he said specifically, but he 21 wasn't very concerned about the threat. 22 Q. Did you make any record of that meeting with Mr. 23 Cox? 24 A. I believe so. 25 Q. What sort of a record did you make? 69 1 A. It would have been file notes similar to the 2 ones we looked at earlier. 3 Q. Similar to the ones with the one-dollar bills? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Similar to the ones with -- 6 MR. SMITH: Objection. Leading, Your Honor. 7 JUDGE POTTER: Well, overruled. 8 Go ahead, Mr. Stopher. 9 Q. Similar to the ones with regard to the postcard 10 and meeting with Mr. Ganote? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Where are those records? 13 A. I don't know. 14 Q. Were they written in your handwriting? 15 A. I don't recall if they were written or typed. 16 Q. Have you looked for them, sir? 17 A. No, I have not. 18 Q. Have you been through records of Standard 19 Gravure to see if you could find those documents? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Were you able to find them? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Did you find your records such as the marked 24 one-dollar bills and the postcard with Ganote? 25 MR. SMITH: Objection, leading, Your Honor. 70 1 JUDGE POTTER: I mean, overruled. It's very 2 preliminary. 3 A. Sir, could you repeat that? 4 Q. Did you find the files on the marked one-dollar 5 bills and the postcard on Ganote? 6 A. I don't recall specifically what I found. 7 Q. Those are certainly your records? 8 A. Yes, they were. 9 Q. Where were these records on the threats of 10 Joseph Wesbecker the last time you saw them, sir? 11 A. In my office at Standard Gravure. 12 Q. Where specifically in your office, do you 13 recall? 14 A. Well, I had several file drawers and they would 15 have been in one of those. 16 Q. The records that we've looked at this morning, 17 did they come from those kind of file drawers? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Now, going back to this meeting with Mr. Cox, 20 did you meet with anybody else at that time about a threat 21 from Wesbecker? 22 A. Not at that time, no. 23 Q. Did you have another meeting about a threat by 24 Wesbecker? 25 A. Yes. 71 1 Q. Who else did you meet with? 2 A. Jim Popham. 3 Q. How did that come about, sir? 4 A. I think Donald Cox referred Jim to me. 5 Q. What do you recall about that meeting, sir? 6 A. That it was similar. I don't remember 7 specifics. 8 Q. Who had Wesbecker threatened? 9 A. Jim Popham. 10 Q. What did he threaten him with? 11 A. Physical harm is my recollection. 12 Q. Did he specify the means of physical harm? 13 A. I don't remember. 14 Q. Do you recall when this report came to you of a 15 threat? 16 A. Shortly after I had met with Don Cox about his 17 situation. 18 Q. Did you make a record or write down what was 19 said in that meeting, sir? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Have you been able to find it? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Did you give copies of any of those records to 24 anyone else at Standard Gravure? 25 A. I believe that I forwarded copies of my notes to 72 1 Don McCall. 2 Q. Notes of the meetings with Cox and Popham about 3 the threats from Wesbecker? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Was that your normal procedure with regard to 6 threats? 7 A. Yes, to make someone higher up in the management 8 of the company aware of those things. 9 Q. After the meeting with Cox and Popham, what did 10 you do next, sir, with regard to those threats? 11 A. I don't recall that we did anything. 12 Q. Well, what was the procedure in terms of 13 security to follow up on a threat of violence at Standard 14 Gravure? 15 A. I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. 16 Q. Well, sir, I read in the personnel policy, bomb 17 threats are to be reported to the police; correct? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. What was to be done with threats of violence 20 against individuals at Standard Gravure? 21 A. Well, there weren't that many, and I think we 22 just handled them on an individual basis based on what we felt 23 the validity of the threat was. 24 Q. There was no procedure? 25 A. I don't think there was an established 73 1 procedure. 2 Q. When the gun report came to you about Mr. 3 Ganote, you met with him; right? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Here you get a report from two different men 6 about a threat of violence from Joseph Wesbecker. Did you 7 meet with him? 8 A. No. 9 MR. SMITH: Objection, leading. 10 JUDGE POTTER: Overruled. 11 Q. Did you meet with him? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Why not? 14 A. I don't recall. 15 Q. Did you request that anybody else meet with Joe 16 Wesbecker about these threats? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Was there any investigation done of him or of 19 his threats? 20 A. No. 21 Q. And the records are missing; am I right? 22 A. I don't have them. I assume if you don't have 23 them they are. 24 Q. Mr. Throneberry, did you ever attend any 25 meetings between Joe Wesbecker and Michael Shea? 74 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Would you tell us what you recall about that. 3 A. Well, I don't recall when it was exactly. Mike 4 Shea was to meet with Joe Wesbecker about something, and I 5 believe it was Don McCall that asked me to be near Mike's 6 office during that meeting. 7 Q. Why did he want you to be near Mike Shea's 8 office when Joe Wesbecker met with Mr. Shea? 9 A. Well, I assume it was because he felt 10 uncomfortable with the -- 11 MR. SMITH: It would be speculative, Your Honor, 12 we'd object to it on that basis. 13 JUDGE POTTER: Overruled. 14 A. I assume it was because he felt uncomfortable 15 with Joe Wesbecker being in Mike's presence. 16 Q. How did you do that, sir? 17 A. I positioned myself in an adjacent kitchenette 18 area adjacent to Mike Shea's office. 19 Q. Did Mr. Shea know that you were there? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Did Mr. Wesbecker know that you were there? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Could you hear what was said in the room? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Could you see what was said in the room? 75 1 A. No. 2 Q. And you were in a kitchenette just connected to 3 Mr. Shea's office? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Did you stand there at one meeting or more than 6 one meeting between the two of them? 7 A. Only one that I remember. 8 Q. Can you tell us when that meeting was? 9 A. No, I can't. 10 Q. Mr. Throneberry, prior to September 14, 1989, 11 had you ever received information about any other threats from 12 Joseph Wesbecker? 13 A. No. 14 Q. In the month before the shootings occurred, did 15 you get any reports from the foremen in the pressroom about 16 threats from Joseph Wesbecker? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Did you get any report from Don McCall that he 19 had been contacted by Jim Lucas and had reported a threat by 20 Mr. Wesbecker to blow up the solvent recovery tanks with a 21 remote-controlled airplane? 22 A. Prior to September 14th? 23 Q. Yes, sir. 24 A. No. 25 Q. Nothing like that was ever mentioned to you 76 1 prior to September 14, 1989? 2 MR. SMITH: Objection, leading, Your Honor. 3 JUDGE POTTER: Sustained. 4 Q. Did you ever get any other information from any 5 source at all about any threats of Mr. Wesbecker prior to 6 September 14, 1989? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Was there ever any investigation made of Mr. 9 Wesbecker prior to September 14, 1989? 10 A. Not that I know of. 11 Q. Were the police ever contacted? 12 A. Not that I know of. 13 Q. Was his psychiatrist ever contacted? 14 A. Not that I know of. 15 Q. Mr. Throneberry, the only two threats that you 16 knew about and recorded were the two reported to you by Cox 17 and by Popham; am I right? 18 MR. SMITH: Objection, leading, Your Honor. 19 JUDGE POTTER: Sustained. 20 Q. Did you have information about two threats? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. They were written down? 23 MR. SMITH: Objection, leading, Your Honor. 24 Q. Were they written down? 25 A. Yes. 77 1 Q. Mr. Throneberry, do you recall testifying on 2 November 22, 1989, with regard to this matter? 3 A. Was that the date of my deposition? 4 Q. No, sir. It was the date of the coroner's 5 inquest. 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Did you testify under oath on that occasion, 8 sir? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Let me read this question to you and ask if you 11 remember answering this question. 12 MR. SMITH: Your Honor, is this impeachment? I 13 don't know that it's been established as impeachment. 14 JUDGE POTTER: I'm assuming it is. 15 Is that what it is, Mr. Stopher? 16 MR. STOPHER: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. 18 Q. Mr. Throneberry, let me ask you if this question 19 was asked of you under oath and if you gave this answer. 20 Question, Page 188, Line 19: "Were you aware of any threats 21 that he" -- meaning Joe Wesbecker -- "had made against any 22 employees or against the company? 23 "Answer: No, sir. 24 "Question: You're the security chief; right? 25 "Answer: I'm safety and security. 78 1 "Question: Safety and security? 2 "Answer: Yes, sir. 3 "Question: So you were totally unaware that Mr. 4 Wesbecker would do anything of this sort? 5 "Answer: No. I wasn't aware of anything." 6 Did you give that testimony under oath, sir? 7 A. I assume I did, if that's what it says. 8 Q. Mr. Throneberry, why didn't you tell about the 9 threats that you knew about and the documents recording those 10 threats? 11 A. I suppose I didn't remember it. 12 Q. Did you give those files to the police? 13 A. Yes, I believe. 14 Q. You gave them the threats files? 15 A. I believe so. 16 Q. Do you recall being interviewed and questioned 17 by Policeman Donald Burbrink? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Did you tell him about the threats that you knew 20 about through Popham and Cox that had been made by Wesbecker? 21 A. I don't recall if I did or not. 22 Q. Did you tell him about the file that you had on 23 the threats of Joseph Wesbecker? 24 A. I really don't recall. 25 Q. Do you recall him asking you specifically if you 79 1 were aware of any threats that Mr. Wesbecker had made directly 2 against anyone? 3 A. I don't recall. 4 Q. Did you tell him -- did you give him any answer 5 as to whether or not you had any documents recording threats 6 by Wesbecker? 7 A. I don't remember. 8 Q. Mr. Throneberry -- excuse me, Your Honor, I 9 apologize, it's five minutes after eleven. 10 JUDGE POTTER: How much longer are you going to 11 be, Mr. Stopher? 12 MR. STOPHER: I don't think a whole lot longer, 13 Your Honor. 14 JUDGE POTTER: Well, we'll go, and when you're 15 finished we'll take a break. 16 MR. STOPHER: All right. 17 Mr. Throneberry, should threats be disregarded? 18 MR. SMITH: Objection, leading. 19 JUDGE POTTER: Overruled. 20 A. I'm sorry? 21 Q. Should threats be disregarded? 22 A. No. 23 Q. As a man experienced in security and trained in 24 law enforcement, should all threats be followed up on? 25 A. To a degree. 80 1 Q. Were the threats of Joseph Wesbecker ever 2 followed up on adequately, sir? 3 A. I believe so. 4 Q. Who followed up on them? 5 A. Well, that would have been me. 6 Q. And what did you do to follow up on them, sir? 7 A. Interviewed Donald Cox and James Popham. 8 Q. Did you ever ask the pressroom personnel to 9 report any other threats from Joseph Wesbecker to you? 10 A. Meaning Donald Cox and Jim Popham? 11 Q. Or others. 12 A. I don't recall any others. 13 Q. Should Don McCall have reported any threats that 14 he knew about to you? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. If Mr. Lucas met with Mr. McCall and gave him 17 information about Mr. Wesbecker coming to do harm and 18 violence, should that have been reported to you? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. If Mr. Cox and Mr. McKeown had information about 21 Mr. Wesbecker coming to do great violence to Standard Gravure, 22 should that have been reported to you? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Mr. Throneberry, when do you decide which 25 threats to report to the police and which threats not to 81 1 report to the police? 2 A. It depends on the situation. You have to base 3 it on information you receive from people who have firsthand 4 knowledge and what you weigh the potential to be. 5 Q. Did you ever meet with Mr. Lucas and determine 6 whether or not he had firsthand knowledge of the threat of 7 imminent violence to Standard Gravure before September 14, 8 1989? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Did anybody ever tell you that he had that kind 11 of information? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Mr. Throneberry, was the security at Standard 14 Gravure on September 14, 1989, adequate? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Did you have a complete history of the threats 17 that had been made against Standard Gravure as of 18 September 14, 1989? 19 A. I don't know if I had a complete history or not. 20 Q. What did you ever do to try to get a complete 21 history of threats? 22 A. Well, I worked very closely with Dick Neumann 23 and Steve Vogel at The Courier-Journal. Dick would have been 24 responsible for that prior to the separation of the companies, 25 and I had access to everything that was in their files and 82 1 records. 2 Q. Mr. Throneberry, do you have any explanation as 3 to why documents like the marked one-dollar bills and the 4 postcard regarding Mr. Ganote are still in existence and your 5 threat file on Mr. Wesbecker is not in existence? 6 A. No, I don't. 7 Q. No explanation at all? 8 A. No. 9 MR. STOPHER: I believe that's all at this time, 10 Your Honor. 11 JUDGE POTTER: Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take 12 the morning recess. As I've mentioned to you-all before, do 13 not permit anybody to speak to or communicate with you on any 14 topic connected with this trial. Do not discuss it among 15 yourselves and do not form or express opinions about it. 16 We'll stand in recess for 15 minutes. 17 (BENCH DISCUSSION) 18 JUDGE POTTER: Ms. Ryan, she's the juror that 19 sits in the front row that swapped with the lady, she advised 20 my sheriff that she lives in the same apartment house as 21 Mr. Bryan; I don't know whether it's a house or a complex or 22 whatever it is, and she just wanted you-all to know. Does 23 anyone want me to ask her any additional questions about that? 24 MR. STOPHER: No. 25 MR. SMITH: Did she indicate she knew him or 83 1 anything? 2 JUDGE POTTER: From my sheriff she just 3 indicated she knew who he was from the same apartment house, 4 but I'm not sure of that. 5 MR. SMITH: I would assume that if she had had 6 any conversations with him about anything -- you might check 7 to see if she had any conversations or caution about having 8 any conversations or anything of that nature. 9 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. 10 (BENCH DISCUSSION CONCLUDED) 11 SHERIFF CECIL: The jury is now entering. All 12 jurors are present. Court is back in session. 13 JUDGE POTTER: Please be seated. Ms. Franklin, 14 could I get you to let Ms. Ryan out, and, Ms. Ryan, could I 15 get you to stand up here for just a second? 16 JUROR RYAN: Of all days. I'm going to 17 Tennessee. I'm sorry. 18 (BENCH DISCUSSION) 19 JUDGE POTTER: You mentioned that Mr. Bryan 20 lives in the same apartment complex? 21 JUROR RYAN: Condominiums. They're our own 22 individual condominiums. 23 JUDGE POTTER: Do you know him well enough to 24 where his appearing in this case would bother you? 25 JUROR RYAN: No. I just thought I'd better tell 84 1 you-all, but, oh, no, just to speak to him. 2 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Be sure and don't talk to 3 him about this case or anything else. 4 JUROR RYAN: We don't see him very much, just at 5 the pool. 6 JUDGE POTTER: Well, I don't think we have to 7 worry about the pool any more this year. 8 JUROR RYAN: Right. And I'm going to Tennessee 9 as soon as I leave here. 10 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you. 11 (BENCH DISCUSSION CONCLUDED) 12 JUDGE POTTER: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, 13 let me just tell you what happened. Ms. Ryan did exactly what 14 she should have done; she recognized a witness and she advised 15 my sheriff, and I just called her up to find out, you know, 16 how she knew the witness. And it turned out it was a very 17 tangential connection with the witness and that's just what we 18 needed to get straight. 19 One other thing. Mr. Smith, let me say one 20 other thing here. 21 (BENCH DISCUSSION) 22 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Smith, I promised certain 23 people we would stop at one o'clock and we will, but I want 24 you to understand that I don't know what you're planning on 25 for your length of cross-examination is, but you should not 85 1 feel compelled to complete it by one o'clock. 2 MR. SMITH: Oh, no. We'll be through in ten 3 minutes. 4 JUDGE POTTER: I just wanted you to know we'll 5 bring him back if you wanted. 6 (BENCH DISCUSSION CONCLUDED) 7 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Throneberry, I'll remind you 8 you're still under oath. 9 Mr. Smith. 10 11 EXAMINATION ___________ 12 13 BY_MR._SMITH: __ ___ _____ 14 Q. Mr. Throneberry, my name is Paul Smith and I 15 represent the Plaintiffs in this case. At all times that you 16 were head of security at Standard Gravure, did you exercise 17 your best efforts to protect the employees there at Standard 18 Gravure? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And do you think that you went about that in the 21 best way you could, sir? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. When somebody comes to you with reports that -- 24 like Mr. Cox and Mr. Popham concerning this incident -- and it 25 was one incident, wasn't it? In other words, this incident 86 1 with Mr. Wesbecker where it had been reported to you by Mr. 2 Cox that there had been some type of threat made by Mr. 3 Wesbecker, then you later interviewed Mr. Popham, was it your 4 understanding that that was all one situation, sir? 5 A. No. It's my understanding that was two 6 separate. 7 Q. Two separate instances? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. All right. In doing that, did both of those 10 individuals express to you that they didn't have any fear of 11 Mr. Wesbecker? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. All right. Give the jury some insight into what 14 your thinking was and what they told you about these 15 particular incidents. 16 A. I'm not sure I understand exactly what your 17 question was. 18 Q. Why didn't you do anything else other than what 19 you did? 20 A. Because I had to rely on what Mr. Cox and Mr. 21 Popham had relayed to me and what they perceived the risk to 22 be. 23 Q. What did they relay to you, sir? 24 A. That they weren't especially concerned about it. 25 Q. Did they tell you why they were not concerned 87 1 about it? 2 A. No. 3 Q. I assume you asked them if they felt that Joe 4 Wesbecker was a threat to them, indeed? 5 A. I asked them if they wanted me to provide them 6 with personal security. 7 Q. And you asked them that because you were there 8 as the security director for the company? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And what was their response? 11 A. They both declined that. 12 Q. And what was their reasoning in declining that, 13 sir? 14 A. I assume they didn't believe that the risk was 15 serious enough to be concerned about. 16 Q. Did you know Joe Wesbecker? 17 A. Only to see him. 18 Q. All right. And had he ever appeared to you as a 19 person that posed a risk of violence to any individual at 20 Standard Gravure? 21 A. Didn't appear to me that way, no. 22 Q. And did he appear to, in your conversations with 23 Mr. Popham and Mr. Cox, to be an individual that would do them 24 violence? 25 A. Well, I had to rely on what they told me, so... 88 1 Q. Well, was it your understanding that they knew 2 Mr. Wesbecker better than you did? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. That they worked with him closer than you did? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. That they had known him for longer than you had? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And had had a lot more experience with Mr. 9 Wesbecker than you had? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And was it your impression that they, as far as 12 assessing a risk to themselves, would probably be the best 13 individuals to assess that risk? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. But you still left it up to them, if they wanted 16 some security you were going to provide it; is that right? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And they each declined, sir? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Because they each expressed to you that they 21 didn't feel that Joe Wesbecker at that time presented a risk 22 to them? 23 A. Well, I assume by declining the offer of 24 additional security that's what they felt, yes. 25 Q. If you in your experience as a former law 89 1 enforcement officer and as an individual who was charged with 2 security had felt that they were incorrect or were improper in 3 their appraisal of Mr. Wesbecker, would you have taken 4 independent action yourself, sir? 5 A. No. I would have pressed them to go along with 6 it, but I wouldn't have forced it on them. 7 Q. All right. You mean the security for 8 themselves? 9 A. Yes. Yes. 10 Q. Well, what about you taking some action against 11 Mr. Wesbecker? 12 A. It would have depended upon what they told me. 13 Q. Again, what did they tell you, sir? 14 A. Well, only that they declined the security and 15 that they weren't that concerned about it. 16 Q. And you relied on them to make that assessment, 17 sir? 18 A. Yes. That's correct. 19 Q. But in relying on them, you had some reasonable 20 basis to rely on them, didn't you, sir? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Your experience? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Your training? 25 A. Yes. 90 1 Q. And the way they relayed to you what they 2 perceived as a risk? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Did you know at that time that Mr. Cox lived two 5 blocks from Mr. Wesbecker? 6 A. Not at that time I didn't. 7 Q. And Mr. Cox still declined any type -- your 8 offer of any type of personal security for himself or his 9 family? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Mr. Cox was an individual at Standard Gravure 12 that had some responsibility for operation of the plant, did 13 he not? 14 A. Yes, he did. 15 Q. And was it your experience that Mr. Cox in the 16 past had exercised good judgment in connection with matters of 17 import to the company? 18 A. Generally, yes. 19 Q. And you were willing to rely on him as the 20 pressroom superintendent? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And the pressroom, of course, sir, was the guts 23 of what you-all were doing there, wasn't it? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. If the pressroom messed up, nobody did any good 91 1 there, did they? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Because this was a printing plant? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And Mr. Cox was in charge of the pressroom? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And, in your judgment, was an individual 8 responsible for making decisions in connection with 9 companywide matters? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And you had never seen Joe Wesbecker with a gun? 12 A. No. 13 Q. You had never known of Joe Wesbecker presenting 14 any other risk to any other individuals there? 15 A. No. 16 Q. And that's the reason that you didn't make a 17 personal investigation yourself where you directly confronted 18 Mr. Wesbecker? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Because you were basing your judgment on 21 individuals in areas of responsibility who were -- in fact, if 22 anybody was going to have a problem, they were going to be the 23 ones to whom it was directed, sir? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Now, do I understand it that you, as director of 92 1 security, remained adjacent to Mr. Shea's office in a 2 kitchenette area while Mr. Shea and Mr. Wesbecker had a 3 conversation? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Would this have been before or after this threat 6 by Mr. Cox and Mr. Popham as reported to you? 7 A. I don't remember. 8 Q. Did you know what the subject of Mr. Wesbecker 9 and Mr. Shea's meeting was? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Did -- are you sure it was Mr. Shea -- Mr. 12 Wesbecker that was meeting with Mr. Shea? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. No doubt in your mind? 15 A. No. 16 Q. It couldn't have been Mr. Daunhauer that was 17 actually meeting with Mr. Shea? 18 A. No. 19 Q. You indeed know it was Joseph T. Wesbecker? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Do I understand it, sir, that Joseph T. 22 Wesbecker and Michael Shea were in an office together? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And how big was Mr. Shea's office? 25 A. Maybe 20 foot by 20 foot. 93 1 Q. Is it much bigger than this jury box? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Twice as big as this jury box? 4 A. Maybe a third bigger. 5 Q. Was it your understanding that Mr. Shea was 6 armed during this meeting? 7 A. Excuse me? 8 Q. Was it your understanding that Mr. Shea was 9 armed during this meeting? 10 A. No. 11 Q. And you were there at a door. Was the door 12 closed? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. But were you sitting closely enough to the door 15 that you could hear anything that went on in the office? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Were you there where you were -- could be 18 summoned in case there was any kind of problems between 19 Mr. Shea and Mr. Wesbecker? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And were you prepared to take any action with -- 22 Mr. Wesbecker was in close proximity with Mr. Shea? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Did you see Mr. Wesbecker enter the office of 25 Mr. Shea? 94 1 A. No. 2 Q. Did you see Mr. Wesbecker enter the 3 administrative offices? 4 A. I believe so. 5 Q. When you saw Mr. Wesbecker enter the 6 administrative offices did you do some kind of search on him 7 to make sure he didn't have any weapons? 8 A. No. 9 Q. And did you hear any cries for assistance from 10 Mr. Shea during this meeting? 11 A. No. 12 Q. How long did this meeting last? 13 A. Just a few minutes. 14 Q. Mr. Shea wasn't sitting between bullet -- had 15 bullet-proof glass or anything between he and Mr. Wesbecker, 16 did he? 17 A. No. 18 Q. He was facing him, wasn't he? 19 A. I assume so. I don't really know. 20 Q. The meeting went without incident, didn't it? 21 A. So far as I know. 22 Q. Mr. Shea never expressed any problems at the 23 meeting? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Mr. Wesbecker never expressed any problems at 95 1 the meeting? 2 A. Not to me. 3 Q. You didn't hear any screaming or yelling? 4 A. No. 5 Q. You didn't hear any doors slamming? 6 A. No. 7 Q. You didn't hear any loud talking? 8 A. No. 9 Q. You didn't hear anybody pounding on any desk or 10 pounding on any doors, did you? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Would you agree with me, sir, that if Mr. 13 Wesbecker was going to do violence to Mr. Shea he could very 14 well have done it right then and there? 15 A. Well, he could have. 16 Q. But he didn't, did he? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Did you ever have any instance where a gun was 19 ever discharged in that plant, that you're aware of? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Did anybody ever get shot at that plant before 22 September 14th, 1989? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Was this, in your opinion, in your training and 25 experience, a violent, horrible place to work? 96 1 A. No. 2 Q. Did you feel up till September 14th, 1989, that 3 any employees there were in any danger? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Did you feel up to September 14th, 1989, and 6 after September 14th, '89, that there was anybody in 7 management at Standard Gravure that took lightly employee 8 safety? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Did you take employee safety lightly? 11 A. No. 12 Q. The Sixth Street door, the Sixth Street 13 entrance, are you familiar with that? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. That is the public entrance to that premises, 16 isn't it? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. There is a necessity that the door be open, 19 isn't there? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. During business hours? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And that necessity is so people can come and 24 conduct business on the premises of Standard Gravure? 25 A. Yes. 97 1 Q. That's not just an employee entrance, is it? 2 A. It wasn't supposed to be an employee entrance at 3 all. 4 Q. That's for the public, wasn't it? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And it was to remain unlocked and open so that 7 the public could conduct business with Standard Gravure? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Was there ever any discussions about having 10 armed guards on the premises at Standard Gravure before 11 September 14th, 1989? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Did you feel as director of security that the 14 situation there required armed guards? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Did you feel that the situation at Standard 17 Gravure before September 14th, 1989, required more guards? 18 A. Before September 14th? 19 Q. Right. 20 A. No. 21 Q. Had there ever been a bomb threat where you got 22 a call and said there's a bomb in Pressroom Three set to 23 explode? Had you ever had a bomb threat like that? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And what had been done? 98 1 A. Well, again, each of those were weighed 2 individually, and there were times when we had made 3 evacuations. And this primarily occurred during Bingham 4 ownership. 5 Q. Okay. Of course, September 14th, 1989, didn't 6 involve a bomb threat, did it? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Mr. Wesbecker appeared with guns at that time? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Were you on the premises when this happened on 11 September 14th, 1989, Mr. Throneberry? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Where were you? 14 A. On the way to the office. 15 Q. When you got there, had the shooting stopped? 16 A. It's my understanding that it had not. 17 Q. When you were there, was there a SWAT team 18 there? 19 A. One arrived after I arrived. 20 Q. And was the SWAT team even able to get to Mr. 21 Wesbecker before he committed suicide himself? 22 A. I'm not sure they were there before he committed 23 suicide. I don't know when they got there. 24 Q. Is it true that in the press area that there had 25 been pressmen that had been there for generations? 99 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And that there were families there? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And that the feelings among the pressmen was 5 generally good as to each other? 6 A. As to each other, yes. 7 Q. In other words, there wasn't fights breaking out 8 every shift between pressmen, was there? 9 A. No. 10 Q. These were good friends and had been good 11 friends for years; correct? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Had even family members? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Do you know of any abuses that anybody was 16 getting or taking there in the pressroom before September 17 14th, 1989? 18 A. I don't know of any. 19 Q. Thank you, Mr. Throneberry. That's all I have. 20 JUDGE POTTER: Anything further, Mr. Stopher? 21 MR. STOPHER: Just one or two questions, Your 22 Honor. 23 24 25 100 1 FURTHER_EXAMINATION _______ ___________ 2 3 BY_MR._STOPHER: __ ___ _______ 4 Q. You were asked, Mr. Throneberry, about prior 5 bomb threats and evacuations. In the pressroom, sir, how long 6 did it take from the sounding of an alarm, whether it was a 7 fire alarm or whatever, to evacuate the pressroom? 8 A. About a half a minute to a minute. 9 Q. A half a minute to a minute? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Thirty to sixty seconds? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Thank you, sir. 14 MR. SMITH: I thought of one other thing, Your 15 Honor. 16 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. 17 18 19 FURTHER_EXAMINATION _______ ___________ 20 21 BY_MR._SMITH: __ ___ _____ 22 Q. This P.A. system or this system that was going 23 to be installed that was a paging-type system that's been 24 marked as Exhibit 158, Mr. Throneberry, it's not -- you didn't 25 mean to leave the impression that every phone in the -- on the 101 1 premises, you could punch a button and all of a sudden you 2 would be on the P.A. system, was it? 3 A. Every phone would not have done that, no. 4 Q. What phones would it have been? 5 A. The phones in the administrative offices, the 6 phones in the foremen's and superintendents' offices. 7 Q. But not every phone on the premises could be 8 used? 9 A. Yes. That's correct. 10 Q. Otherwise, you'd have everybody paging everybody 11 all the time, wouldn't you, probably? 12 A. Yes. 13 MR. SMITH: That's all I have. 14 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you very much, sir. You 15 may step down; you're excused. 16 Mr. Stopher, do you want to call your next 17 witness? 18 MR. STOPHER: Yes, Your Honor. We call 19 Douglas Sowders. 20 JUDGE POTTER: Ladies and gentlemen -- 21 Mr. Stopher, you're not going to need the extra exhibits for 22 this witness, will you, the contracts and stuff? 23 MR. STOPHER: No, sir. I would tell you this, 24 though, I believe that those particular exhibits were admitted 25 earlier but copies were not distributed. I may be wrong about 102 1 that but that's what our records indicate. 2 JUDGE POTTER: All right. 3 Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I tell you 4 what. Just to kind of keep things straight, why don't you 5 pass -- I gave my sheriff the numbers there. 6 SHERIFF CECIL: Is it all of these? 7 JUDGE POTTER: Yeah. I think it's all of them. 8 354 and 160 you keep. And if you pass them over to my 9 sheriff, they'll check and if you haven't got them she'll give 10 them back to you; if you already have them she'll keep them. 11 Let me just tell you why I do that. The lawyers 12 are out here trying to do the best they can with their case, 13 and sometimes their documents are -- they think they're 14 important. And if I'd let them, they'd take their important 15 documents and they'd give you 50 copies of what they think are 16 important. So that's why we keep it kind of down to one set 17 for each. 18 Sir, would you raise your right hand, please. 19 DOUGLAS SOWDERS, after first being duly sworn, 20 was examined and testified as follows: 21 22 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Would you have a seat 23 there. Wait just a second. 24 MS. ZETTLER: Your Honor, could we have a quick 25 second? 103 1 (BENCH DISCUSSION) 2 MS. ZETTLER: Just I want to object ahead of 3 time to the extent that we start getting into the toluene and 4 the folder and the guns and all the other stuff that we've 5 already been through time and time and time again so far, so I 6 don't have to keep jumping up in the middle of testimony. 7 JUDGE POTTER: What's this man going to add to 8 anything, Mr. Stopher? 9 MR. STOPHER: Just some statements, nothing 10 relative to the folder. 11 MS. ZETTLER: I mean, were there any statements 12 that Wesbecker's made to him directly? 13 MR. STOPHER: Sure. 14 MS. ZETTLER: What? 15 JUDGE POTTER: Well, I guess we'll find out. 16 (BENCH DISCUSSION CONCLUDED) 17 JUDGE POTTER: Sir, would you state your full 18 name and then spell your name for us loud and clear. 19 MR. SOWDERS: Douglas Arthur Sowders, 20 S-O-W-D-E-R-S. 21 JUDGE POTTER: And answer Mr. Stopher's 22 questions. 23 24 25 104 1 EXAMINATION ___________ 2 3 BY_MR._STOPHER: __ ___ _______ 4 Q. Mr. Sowders, where do you live, sir? 5 A. 9804 Michael Edward Drive. I forgot. 6 Q. Try to relax, sir. I know you don't want to be 7 here. How old are you, sir? 8 A. Fifty-two. 9 Q. And, Mr. Sowders, by whom are you employed? 10 A. HLH Building Corporation. 11 Q. And did you work at one time, sir, at Standard 12 Gravure? 13 A. Yes, sir. 14 Q. And approximately when did you work at Standard? 15 A. From September 9, '86, to December 28, '88. 16 Q. So it was just about a two-year period; am I 17 right, sir? 18 A. Yes, sir. 19 Q. Prior to that, had you worked in the printing 20 business before? 21 A. Yes, sir. I started at Fawcett-Haynes in '64 to 22 '76. 23 Q. And were you out of the printing business from 24 '76 to '86? 25 A. Yes, sir. 105 1 Q. Mr. Sowders, during that particular two-year 2 period there from September of '86 to December of '88, did you 3 have contact with Joseph Wesbecker? 4 A. Yes, sir. 5 Q. And during that period of time, sir, did he ever 6 talk to you about the foremen? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. What sorts of things did he tell you about the 9 foremen? 10 A. Nothing good. He didn't like them. 11 Q. What did he say about them, sir? 12 A. Well, I can -- I can't remember anything 13 specific. He just talked, you know, bad-mouthed them. He 14 never did say anything specific about them other than they 15 wouldn't let him off the folder. 16 Q. Did he ever talk about particular foremen? 17 A. Well, I know he didn't like Popham. 18 Q. What did he say about Popham? 19 A. Well, again, I say, I can't remember anything 20 specific. One time I asked him, I said, "What did he ever do 21 to you," and he said, "Plenty," and that's all it was. 22 Q. Did he ever compare him to somebody? 23 A. Hitler, maybe. 24 Q. What did he say with regard to McKeown? 25 A. Well, he put him in the same category. 106 1 Q. Did he ever say what he thought ought to be done 2 about them? 3 A. Well, he never said any -- named any names, but 4 he said they all ought to be stood up and mowed down, and then 5 he laughed. 6 Q. When did he say that, sir? 7 A. I couldn't tell you the date, but it was in the 8 pressroom. 9 Q. And it was in that two-year period that you 10 worked there, sir? 11 A. Yes, sir. 12 Q. Did you ever hear him talk about guns or about 13 particular ammunition or that sort of thing, sir? 14 A. Oh, he talked about guns after -- you know, 15 while I was down there at Standard he talked about guns quite 16 a bit, but ammunition, I don't recall any specifics. 17 Q. Did he ever talk about particular types of guns? 18 A. Not that I recall. 19 Q. That's all, sir. 20 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Smith, Ms. Zettler? 21 MS. ZETTLER: No questions, Your Honor. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you very much, sir. You 23 may step down; you're excused. 24 Mr. Stopher, do you want to call your next 25 witness? 107 1 MR. STOPHER: Yes, Your Honor. We call Kathy 2 Mahoney. Your Honor, it will take about ten minutes to get 3 her here. 4 JUDGE POTTER: I tell you what, we'll take a 5 ten-minute recess. As I've mentioned to you-all before, do 6 not talk to anybody about this case; do not discuss it among 7 yourselves and do not form or express opinions. We'll take a 8 ten-minute recess. 9 (RECESS) 10 SHERIFF CECIL: The jury is now entering. All 11 jurors are present. Court is back in session. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Please be seated. 13 Mr. Stopher, do you want to call your next 14 witness? 15 MR. STOPHER: Yes, Your Honor. Kathleen 16 Mahoney. 17 JUDGE POTTER: Ma'am, would you raise your right 18 hand, please. 19 20 KATHLEEN MAHONEY, after first being duly sworn, 21 was examined and testified as follows: 22 23 JUDGE POTTER: Would you walk around, have a 24 seat in the witness box, give us your name loudly and clearly 25 and then spell it for me. 108 1 MS. MAHONEY: My name is Kathleen Mahoney. 2 K-A-T-H-L-E-E-N, M-A-H-O-N-E-Y. 3 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. If you'll answer 4 Mr. Stopher's questions. 5 6 EXAMINATION ___________ 7 8 BY_MR._STOPHER: __ ___ _______ 9 Q. Ms. Mahoney, by whom are you employed? 10 A. South Central Bell. 11 Q. And what is your present title at South Central 12 Bell? 13 A. I'm an administrator in the security office 14 responsible for subpoena compliance. 15 Q. Ms. Mahoney, sometime ago, specifically I 16 believe it was January of 1993, we sent a subpoena to South 17 Central Bell for records relating to the number (502) 363-4654 18 concerning the telephone listing for B. J. Wesbecker, 19 7300 Nottoway Circle; correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And was it part of your job to respond to that 22 subpoena? 23 A. Yes, it was. 24 Q. Ms. Mahoney, pursuant to that subpoena, did you 25 obtain records concerning that listing and that telephone 109 1 number at that address? 2 A. Yes, I did. 3 Q. Let me hand you a copy of a document that has 4 now been marked as Defendant's Exhibit 346. Would you 5 identify what this is, Ms. Mahoney? 6 A. Yes. This is a customer service record for 7 telephone number (502) 363-4654, billed to Brenda J. 8 Wesbecker, Louisville, Kentucky. 9 Q. And what is the address? 10 A. 7300 Nottoway Circle. 11 Q. And when was this service initiated? 12 A. The service was disconnected February the 8th. 13 This particular record shows that service was established May 14 the 23rd, 1984. 15 Q. And when was service disconnected? 16 A. February the 8th, 1989. 17 Q. Your Honor, we would move the admission of the 18 publication of this document as Defendant's Exhibit 346. 19 JUDGE POTTER: Be admitted 20 SHERIFF CECIL: (Hands document to jurors). 21 Q. Ms. Mahoney, at the deposition where you 22 produced these records, I also asked you to determine whether 23 or not, from your records, telephone service was ever 24 reconnected at 7300 Nottoway Circle. Did you undertake that 25 search pursuant to that request? 110 1 A. Yes, I did. 2 Q. Was there ever any phone service reconnected at 3 that address prior to September 14, 1989? 4 A. No, there was not. 5 Q. That's all, Ms. Mahoney. Thank you very much. 6 MS. ZETTLER: No questions. 7 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you very much, ma'am. You 8 may step down; you're excused. 9 Mr. Stopher, is that -- 10 MR. STOPHER: Yes, Your Honor. 11 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, 12 we're going to take the recess for the weekend. Can you-all 13 come in at 9:00 on Monday? I've spoken to the people about 14 the parking garage, and apparently the parking garage has 15 expanded the number of people that they're giving discounts to 16 or some county employees have started using it. The Jury Pool 17 is going to look into it, but their kind of advice to you at 18 the current time is to maybe get here a little early; that's 19 their best suggestion. They're going to get back with me on 20 Monday about it, though. 21 Would you-all take a few minutes with my sheriff 22 and sort out, if you didn't do so on the last break -- did 23 you-all sort out what exhibits they had and didn't have, 24 Madame Sheriff, or not? 25 SHERIFF CECIL: They were going to look through 111 1 to make sure. 2 JUDGE POTTER: Will you-all do that before you 3 go home? So if you don't have a copy of that last batch, she 4 can give you-all some of them or all of them, depending on 5 what you need. 6 It will be 9:00 on Monday. Do not permit 7 anybody to speak with you on any topic connected with this 8 trial. I emphasize that includes friends or family or people 9 that are interested in what you've been doing, as well as the 10 news media communicating with you through the newspaper or the 11 radio or the telephone. Do not discuss the case among 12 yourselves or form or express opinions about it until it is 13 finally submitted to you. We'll stand in recess till 9:00 14 Monday morning. 15 (PROCEEDINGS TERMINATED THIS DATE AT 12:20 P.M.) 16 * * * 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 112 1 STATE OF KENTUCKY )( )( Sct. 2 COUNTY OF JEFFERSON )( 3 I, JULIA K. McBRIDE, Notary Public, State of 4 Kentucky at Large, hereby certify that the foregoing 5 Transcript of the Proceedings was taken at the time and place 6 stated in the caption; that the appearances were as set forth 7 in the caption; that prior to giving testimony the witnesses 8 were first duly sworn; that said testimony was taken down by 9 me in stenographic notes and thereafter reduced under my 10 supervision to the foregoing typewritten pages and that said 11 typewritten transcript is a true, accurate and complete record 12 of my stenographic notes so taken. 13 I further certify that I am not related by blood 14 or marriage to any of the parties hereto and that I have no 15 interest in the outcome of captioned case. 16 My commission as Notary Public expires 17 December 21, 1996. 18 Given under my hand this the__________day of 19 ______________________, 1994, at Louisville, Kentucky. 20 21 22 23 24 _____________________________ 25 NOTARY PUBLIC 113 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25